Dan Pashman: Hey everyone, Dan here with another Sporkful Reheat, and did you know that according to the National Chicken Council, Americans will consume about 1.45 billion (with a B) chicken wings on Super Bowl Sunday? This is the highest projection on record now, so you know, maybe it's a little high, but it's going to be a lot. It's gonna be a lot of chicken wings. So we all got wings on the brain, right? Well, to get you in the spirit, today's Reheat is a deep dive into what makes for a great chicken wing, featuring my conversation with Matt Reynolds, director and star of the documentary comedy The Great Chicken Wing Hunt, which is a really fun film. It also includes a love story. 

Dan Pashman: Now, as always, if there's an episode of The Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer and reheat, send me an email or voice memo to hello@sporkful.com. Don't forget to include your first name, location, which episode you want us to reheat, and why. Thanks so much, enjoy your next plate of wings, and enjoy this conversation with Matt Reynolds.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Today on The Sporkful, the search for perfection in chicken wings, and in love, with the star of the documentary comedy The Great Chicken Wing Hunt. Here's a clip.

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): I feel like I believe that everything that you can possibly imagine existing in the world is out there, and if you look hard enough, you'll find it, you know? 

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): I really do want to find the perfect wing. 

CLIP (Wing Eater #1): I don't think there is a perfect wing. 

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): I understand what you're saying, but I want to believe that there are perfect things in life. There's the perfect relationship, or the perfect song, or the perfect day, and the perfect wing. I think it's out there, waiting to be found.

CLIP (Wing Eater #1): Are you married? 

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): No, I'm not married. 

CLIP (Wing Eater #1): Oh, okay then. 

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): Still waiting for the perfect relationship.

Dan Pashman: This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. On the day of the Super Bowl, Americans consume 1.25 billion (with a B) chicken wings. So, it's wing season. But, this show has year-round appeal, because we're going to cover not only wings, but also the meaning of love. I mean, the two sort of go hand in hand anyway, right?

Dan Pashman: Matt Reynolds is the director and star of the documentary comedy The Great Chicken Wing Hunt. In it, Matt leads a band of wing lovers that includes his girlfriend, Lucy, across a swath of upstate New York known as the Wing Belt. They're in search of the perfect Buffalo wing. Not just the best Buffalo wing, the perfect one. But, is perfection even possible? I sat down with Matt at the Village Pourhouse on 3rd Ave in New York. And the conversation got pretty deep, even before we started eating wings.

Matt Reynolds: I grew up in a little town called Lyons about two hours east of Buffalo. So the wings didn't really completely get to that part of the country until the late ‘70s, early ‘80s, but I really just took to them right away. I remember there being like a brief period where they were too spicy for me, and then I started being able to tolerate the spice, and then the people around me were like, “Oh my god, there's a five-year-old that can eat wings, it's amazing.” And I think I liked the attention of that probably, which made me want them even more, and then I just really started to love them.

Dan Pashman: Right. Because there's a moment in the movie where you're doing like some radio interview and you say, “I had an ulcer when I was eight because of chicken wings.” I was like, wait, what? [LAUGHTER] Is that true? 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah, that's true. I had to stop eating wings for like six months and I had to drink this kind of like slimy green liquid that was supposed to help coat my stomach or something.

Dan Pashman: But you're fully recovered.

Matt Reynolds: Yes, yes. That has never come back up. Yeah, I'm fully recovered.

Dan Pashman: Okay. Well, I'm glad to hear that. So you're living in Slovakia. You've been living there for years, and you decided to set out and find the perfect chicken wing.

Matt Reynolds: Uh huh.

Dan Pashman: But not before teaching the Slovaks about wings. What was their reaction? Tell me about teaching the people of Slovakia about Buffalo wings.

Matt Reynolds: So I got into, I came to Europe in the late ‘90s, uh, and this is the eastern, the former eastern bloc, the communist part. So there was less infiltration of American culture there, including that they didn't have Buffalo wings. So I would, I would have my parents ship me bottles of Frank's hot sauce, and I would throw these huge wing parties that became very popular. People would bring friends of friends and suddenly it was a recurring kind of thing where every few months I would throw a wing party and 30 or 40 people would show up. And it got like very rowdy and very, very, very fun. And we decided that the Slovaks… We would take a group of them on a wing tour in New York State, like you might go on a wine tour to France.

Dan Pashman: Right, but this sounds much fancier than that.

Matt Reynolds: Right, exactly. Much more pretentious. And then that just kind of evolved eventually into this quest to find the world's best wing.

Dan Pashman: Your girlfriend, Lucy, in the film, she is Slovak. 

Matt Reynolds: She's Czech. 

Dan Pashman: She's Czech, but, alright, let's not split hairs. Alright, and so my wife is Slovak by descendants. And, you proceed to drag Lucy on this chicken wing hunt. Now, and Lucy plays a big part of the film, and we'll talk—I want to talk more about that a little later on. But first, let's talk about the wing hunt itself. Mm hmm. Now, here on The Sporkful, we often start by defining our terms. So, I really liked that in the film, you did the same. How do you define the Buffalo wing?

Matt Reynolds: A unbreaded, deep fried chicken wing, coated in a pepper vinegar sauce, usually Frank's. That was the one that was used originally.

Dan Pashman: Frank's Red Hot, that's the original. Nowadays it's different things, but that's the original.

Matt Reynolds: Butter, unbreaded and deep fried, and that's basically it. And then, you know, you can do a lot of different things with the recipe. But that, that's the, that's the basis. So we were throwing out anything that was breaded, we were throwing out… You know, we weren't looking for a honey mustard wing, we weren't looking for a teriyaki wing.

Dan Pashman: Now, when you set out on the hunt, you took a very scientific approach, which I really appreciate. And you had score sheets. Who developed these score sheets? 

Matt Reynolds: A group of scientists at Michigan University. [LAUGHS] Yeah, statisticians. It's funny, when we were doing… it was kind of a friend of a friend who had kind of hooked that up for us. And these scientists were like, oh, it's great. You know, we're always doing cancer and stuff. It's fun for us. You know?

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] So cancer research was put on hold for this, Matt. That's just great.

Matt Reynolds: So they flew in, right? And part of the scorecards were a series of questions about mood and sobriety and such. They were doing a statistical regression to try to like factor out mood and fatigue. Right? I mean, they were so that you'd get a nice bell curve, right? 

Dan Pashman: Interesting. 

Matt Reynolds: And at one point, my friend who would kind of hook this up said, he turned to me and he goes, “Do you realize that this guy is like the second most important cancer researcher in the country?” [LAUGHS] And his name is Albert Levine at Michigan. And so that was cool. I didn't even realize till that moment that he was such an esteemed dude. 

Dan Pashman: That's impressive. And before you set out on the hunt, you actually set up. Uh, in order to make sure that you and your entire, your motley crew of wing hunters were all on the same page and you were all going to be… you can sort of set, uh, a common bar for how good is a 3 versus a 5 versus a 7 on the scale. You did a control wing.

Matt Reynolds: We did a control wing, yeah. We stopped at a deli. The control wing was supposed to be a 5. So everybody knows, okay, this is a 5. So we're on the same page. It was so bad we made it a 3. But yeah, that was interesting. That was something I would not have thought of if not for the guys from Michigan.

Dan Pashman: And do you think, I know, I like to ask this question, sometimes I've taped shows or appeared at cooking competitions. And I'm often curious whether the chefs and or the judges, what their opinion is about like going first versus going last. I know that you give the advice to people when the hunt's starting out: Don't give all tens on the first wing because you need to give yourself room to go up. How do you think the order that you went in affected the judging?

Matt Reynolds: That's a really good question. I mean, there's… Buffalo, many of the places in Buffalo did not have such a strong showing and I wonder if it's because they came so late in the process. I don't think it's because we were sick of wings or weren't giving them a fair shake. I think it's because we were comparing them against the best wings we had had on the trip. And maybe because we were comparing them against such a high benchmark, we were rating them a little lower than maybe we should have. And maybe the earlier places when we were… when we wanted to find something great and were more excited to hunt for wings, maybe we rated them a little bit more highly.

Dan Pashman: But it's also possible, we'll get into this more in a minute, but one of the recurring themes of the film is this sort of tension between, sort of, this seeking out the perfect platonic ideal versus the idea of evolution and change and progress.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right. 

Dan Pashman: So it, which is a process that never ends. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: You never have a finished perfection.

Matt Reynolds:  Yeah.

Dan Pashman: And I think it's interesting that Buffalo, where the wing was invented, did poorly because often I find that a specific region that has invented a food may not always be the best at it after a while because they're stuck in their old ways.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right. 

Dan Pashman: Is that possible? 

Matt Reynolds: I think that's so, I mean, somebody in the movie posits the theory that Buffalo is kinda, that maybe, you know, some of the wings we found are part of the next evolution of wings.

Dan Pashman: And, and one of the finalists in the competition, and this was sort of one of the points of controversy of the film, we won't give away how it ends, but he puts bleu cheese into his actual sauce, which simultaneously, Kind of.

Matt Reynolds: And celery. 

Dan Pashman: And celery, right? Yeah.

Matt Reynolds: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Which kind of simultaneously blows your guys' minds and also sets off a heated debate about whether or not these are…

Matt Reynolds: Right, right.

Dan Pashman: Buffalo wings. But that's an example of the kind of thing that that. But you know, if you're stuck in the Buffalo bubble…

Matt Reynolds: Right, and you know, I should say it could have turned out to be bad, but it's really, really great.

Dan Pashman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want that.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Talk to me a little bit more about the score sheet and the criteria specifically relating to judging the wings themselves. What were the criteria you were looking at in the score sheet? 

Matt Reynolds: So this is not verbatim, but it was quality of the meat, the frying, greasiness. So that was, you know, if it was a low score it meant they were too greasy. The consistency of the sauce, the overall quality of the sauce, the… This was an interesting one. How, to what extent the, uh, the degree of the, in the name of the sauce match the actual flavor? Which is a very roundabout way of saying, was a medium a medium? Was a hot a hot? Was a mild a mild? And was there a spread? Could you tell a difference between a mild and a medium? 

Dan Pashman: That is great, because that is a classic problem at so many That's so many sort of bars that are just slinging wings and not paying attention. Either they're all, they all seem the same. 

Matt Reynolds: Right, right. 

Dan Pashman: Or they're poorly described. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Or both. 

Matt Reynolds: You could go to a wing, a wing place and get great wings and, but the hot is not really hot enough, which we would, so we would take off points for that. The most important category was overall flavor. So that was weighted like 40 percent against all the other categories.

Dan Pashman: You know, I have said here on The Sporkful before that I object to spiciness for the sake of spiciness.

Matt Reynolds: I do think that there is, it's, it's very, very silly when you start using Extracts. Um, to create a wing that's so hot that, A, it doesn't have any other flavor because you're using extracts or it has that kind of bitter…

Dan Pashman: Extracts basically is just ridiculous, the most intense, pure spiciness you can add.

Matt Reynolds: Right, it's just pulling the capsaicin out of the pepper and it uses a chemical to do that and then the chemical is discarded but it leaves like a little imprint so you can kind of taste that kind of chemically artificial flavor. So it's, you're not getting the flavor of the peppers. All you're getting is the heat. And you know, you create these wings where you have to sign a waiver to eat them and you have a contest and if you eat six, they're free, or you get a free t-shirt. And I mean, I think all of that is pretty silly. Um, You know, it's, it's like, why not just have a contest where you let somebody punch you in the face. Or you, you slice your lip open with a razor blade. You know, like, we did one of those. I got peer pressured into doing that at one of our stops. And it was probably good in the film because we addressed this point. 

Dan Pashman: Right. Actually, I actually have that sound. Let's hear it. This is sort of the evolution as the spice sinks in more and more. 

Matt Reynolds: Right. At first, I'm like, you know, it's not so bad. And then it gets bad.

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): It's a clean burn. I just ignore it. It's a cauterizing burn. It is getting harder. And it's hurting more. Wow! Ugh! This is day one. It like, it's a slow burn and it just doesn't stop building. Now it hurts when I breathe.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Coming up, my conversation with Matt Reynolds gets deep. Matt said in the film, he wants to believe there's a perfect wing, a perfect day, a perfect relationship. Does he still believe that now? And what does his relationship with wings tell us about his relationship with his girlfriend? Plus, we’ll eat wings together, and I'll ask Matt to take a stand on my controversial opinion that wings would be better with the sauce on the side. Stay with us.

+++ BREAK +++

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Want to watch me walking my dog while ranting about some food related issues that's on my mind? Want to see what I'm cooking? Want to see what I'm eating? The best way to do that is to follow me on Instagram. My kids make occasional appearances. There's a lot of fun to be had. So please follow me on Instagram, @thesporkful. Again, that's @thesporkful. Thanks. 

Dan Pashman: Now back to this week's Reheat. I'm not a chef, but occasionally I get inspired. I like to share my creations. Now, I don't like my wings too spicy, but I do love them smoky. So I created a dish called Where There's Smoke, There's No Need for Fire Chicken Wings.

Dan Pashman: The recipe is up at sporkful.com. Now let's return to my conversation with Matt Reynolds, director and star of The Great Chicken Wing Hunt. We got together at the Village Pourhouse in New York. 

Dan Pashman: At the start of the, of this show, we, I played the clip where you say, you know, you really believe there's a perfect wing out there. There's another part that listeners didn't hear where your girlfriend Lucy says, Well, maybe instead of trying to find the perfect wing, you should just look for the best wing. 

Matt Reynolds: Right. 

Dan Pashman: Which is an interesting distinction. 

Matt Reynolds: Right. 

Dan Pashman: And I want to play another clip here. There's a moment when you're getting sort of discouraged about the wings that you're finding. And you're driving across upstate New York. You're getting sort of a little wistful and And you say some things, and then it cuts to Lucy, she makes a comment, and then it goes back to you. Let's listen to that clip.

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): I'm a little bit surprised that we haven't found more people doing great things with wings. In a way, it mirrors, like, a lot of things in life. Most people aren't trying that hard. Most people don't care that much about what they're doing. I feel old saying that, but, like, it's my experience.

CLIP (Lucy): It's not only about chicken wings. I think it's not about chicken wings. It's about, like, fulfilling your dreams.

CLIP (Matt Reynolds): I feel like I believe that everything that you can possibly imagine existing in the world is out there, and if you look hard enough, you'll find it. You know? And maybe that's not true. 

Dan Pashman: What's your take on that question now? Does the perfect wing exist? Is everything you can imagine existing out there if you look hard enough?

Matt Reynolds: I guess I'm less inclined to believe that those things exist. I think that growing up in a small town, you can kind of imagine that, you can think that anything you could imagine must be out there somewhere in the world. And then when you have traveled and experienced more, you realize that people are very similar everywhere, and that maybe there is less variation than you thought. So, my thinking on that has changed. I guess you're chasing that moment where you just feel like, I can't imagine anything could be better. I guess in your line of work, you're always kind of chasing that, which is interesting. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah. You're always looking for the, you know… 

Dan Pashman: Well, because I've been writing a book, and in the book I identify this concept that I call perfect deliciousness.

Matt Reynolds: Mm hmm.

Dan Pashman: But I kind of describe it more as this platonic ideal. Maybe you don't ever get there, but you know you're always just trying to get closer and closer. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Pashman: But it's kind of a double edged sword because on one hand, on one hand I like the idea of always striving to make things more delicious. Always striving at everything in life to make it better and better always find a better way so much of what I do here on The Sporkful is about finding new and better ways to eat.

Matt Reynolds: Right.

Dan Pashman: So I think there's merit in the pursuit of perfection But there's also the danger of setting yourself up for disappointment.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right. It's kind of like love. 

Dan Pashman: Well, it's, so it's interesting because I do think this relates to your relationship with Lucy, which is a real part of the film. You know, as we said, at the top of the film, you're saying, I believe that there's a perfect wing. I believe that there's a perfect relationship. But it's clear that you, at that point in the start of the film, feel like you haven't found either.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right, right.

Dan Pashman: Even though, at that point, you had been with Lucy for six years.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right. 

Dan Pashman: Okay, um…

Matt Reynolds: Yeah, there's kind of a parallel to like, making a decision about the perfect wing, and making a decision about my relationship. And, or always be looking for something better.

Dan Pashman: Right. Exactly. That's what I want to get to. Because at times, Lucy, in the film, questions whether you love wings more than her. 

Matt Reynolds: Right, right. 

Dan Pashman: And this is kind of, I was wondering whether maybe it's on some level what motivated you to go off on this hunt to quit your job and stop working in Slovakia, come to the US and make this movie and do this and bring her. It is that you had gotten to this point in your relationship with Lucy that paralleled your relationship to wings. [LAUGHS] Which is sort of like, you know, it was really great, but you hadn't experienced perfection,

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right.

Dan Pashman: And so you were feeling restless and you're sort of plagued by this idea that that perfection is out there I mean you've been with this girl for six years.

Matt Reynolds: Mmhmm.

Dan Pashman: And I mean No offense, because I'm sure you guys, you know, you seem like a great couple in the film and all, but you've been together for six years and she's still not sure if you love chicken wings more than her. 

Matt Reynolds: Right, right. That's not a great sign, right?

Dan Pashman: All right, and so there's that and then there's this idea of I want to find perfection…

Matt Reynolds: Right. 

Dan Pashman: You know with wings and I'm sort of chasing this impossible dream, but now what you're saying is that you're without me even prompting, you're comparing your relationship to wings to love in that, you know, it isn't always the fairy tale. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah, yeah. 

Dan Pashman: I mean, is that a fair parallel, and what are your thoughts on that?

Matt Reynolds: Yeah, I think it is a fair parallel, and I think maybe the process of going through this quest to find the perfect thing taught me something about perfection and about life that is applicable to my relationship. I kind of go back and forth on it, to be honest with you, feeling like there's one person out there for me and kind of, you know, allowing myself to indulge in the idea, this romantic notion of love, and then the more practical, cynical side that thinks that, you know, relationships are a lot of work and, you know, that's kind of the beauty of them is that you make this commitment.

Dan Pashman: Right. But isn't that, I mean, I guess, you know, And I think it's, it's, it's true with food as in love that, that maybe the best place to be is sort of a happy medium.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right. Don't marry the first girl that you fell in love with, but…

Dan Pashman: That's right, just like you said, don't give a 10 to the first wing that you eat.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right. 

Dan Pashman: You gotta give yourself room to give a higher score.

Matt Reynolds: But don't keep searching forever. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. Exactly. And understand that, you know, like, sometimes there can be two really freaking amazing wings and you might have an intense debate with your friends at the end of a documentary comedy about which one should win the award.

Matt Reynolds: And eventually you just pick one.

Dan Pashman: And eventually you just pick one. But you know what? You probably would have been pretty happy with either one. Right. Because they're both really great wings for you. 

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right, right.

Dan Pashman:  Alright, should we eat some wings? 

Matt Reynolds: Let's do it.

MUSIC

Matt Reynolds: I'm having one while I listen to you because I'm hungry. 

Dan Pashman: Wait, which one is that? Is that hot? 

Matt Reynolds: This is a hot one.

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Matt Reynolds: Is that okay? 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah. There's two different shapes of wings. This is not something you get into in the film. There are the mini drumsticks, or drumettes. And then the flats, or paddles, that's the one that is the two parallel bones.

Matt Reynolds: Interesting, yeah.The terms that I usually use are drummy and flatty. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. 

Matt Reynolds: But there's many different terms. 

Dan Pashman: That's right. Do you have an opinion about which is better?

Matt Reynolds: You know, I don't know, again, if this is an upstate New York thing and just growing up in the region, but I'm agnostic on that question and most of the people that I grew up with who are wing eaters are.

Dan Pashman: I'm shocked and disappointed to hear that. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah, it's funny. I like both. I kind of go back and forth on any given day. I might prefer one over the other. I think that the…

Dan Pashman: What do you see as the pros and cons of each? 

Matt Reynolds: I think there's, the meat in the flatty is a little tastier. There's more skin. Usually you get a little bit more sauce because it's a flat surface. And you can kind of, if you're dipping in the sauce, you can, it retains sauce better. But it's more work.

Dan Pashman: Matt, you're worried about more work? You're the man that is talking about. this pursuit of perfection. Yeah. And you're not willing to put in the hard work. 

Matt Reynolds: I don't usually mind. 

Dan Pashman: Didn't you say in the movie that most people just aren't that committed to their jobs? They're not, aren't you willing to work a little harder? 

Matt Reynolds: That's a good point. So if you, if you only could eat one wing and you wanted to have the best possible taste experience, I guess you would go for the flatty. 

Dan Pashman: The meat to bone ratio of the flat is 0. 66.

Matt Reynolds: Okay.

Dan Pashman: The meat to bone ratio of the drumstick 0.49. In other words, more meat. to bone in the flat, plus more tender meat, as you say, because it's got more fat in it. So it's more meat and better meat in the flat. All you gotta do is, is have a good strategy to find out how to eat it. 

Matt Reynolds: That's interesting. I would not have I mean, there's that big chunk on the drum. That is a bigger chunk than any possible chunk on the flatty. So that's kind of what jumps out at you and you think, oh, more meat. 

Dan Pashman: But if you remove one of the bones from the flat, then you see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's eat some wings and we'll keep talking.

Matt Reynolds: Okay. 

Dan Pashman: I'm curious to get your thoughts. This is, you know, you and I have been getting along real well here in this interview so far. But I think that things could take a turn south when I tell you that I believe that Buffalo wings might be better when served and eaten with the sauce on the side. 

Matt Reynolds: Wow. What, what is the advantage of, I'd like the idea of extra sauce on the side. 

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Matt Reynolds: But why can't the wings also be sauced?

Dan Pashman: Well, one of the criteria that you talk about in the film is crispiness.

Matt Reynolds: Right, right. 

Dan Pashman: When you sauce wings, you are automatically reducing crisp. 

Matt Reynolds: Right, right, right. 

Dan Pashman: The only counter argument I can imagine is that there's a certain sort of absorption that takes place. 

Matt Reynolds: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: When the wings sit in sauce. One of the places that you go to in the film, They actually said that, made a point of saying that we don't mix the wings with the sauce.

Matt Reynolds: We paint the sauce on. 

Dan Pashman: We paint the sauce on because we don't want the wings to get soggy by, by stirring them around a lot. Mm hmm. So, clearly it's a concern. This is a great wing, by the way. I'm so glad you like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not eat wings with the sauce on the side?

Matt Reynolds: You know, I am not as dogmatic as one might think. I think that, that could be a fine way to eat wings. To be honest with you, I, I, I think 

Dan Pashman: But is it better? Is it closer to perfection? 

Matt Reynolds: I am open to that notion. I, I think You look disappointed. Were you, were you spoiling it for a fight?

Dan Pashman: I was. A little bit, yes, but I just want, I want you to take a stand on whether or not it might be better 

Matt Reynolds: Okay.

Dan Pashman: Than the traditional way 

Matt Reynolds: Can we try it and then…

Dan Pashman: Yes, let's try it.

Matt Reynolds: Okay. Do you want to do a play by play and I'll…

Dan Pashman: Yeah, Matt's gonna take a wing…

Matt Reynolds: So here's where you run into problems. So my flatty will not go into the, the, the small dipping bowl that I've been given. So, I'm gonna have to pour onto my flatty, which is fine, but I'm going to very quickly run out of sauce. It's, I believe, an inconvenient way to eat wings, but the question here is, is it better? So let's, let's set aside the point about it being harder for a second. I'm gonna, I'm gonna bite into the wing.

Dan Pashman: Matt has poured the sauce over the wing and is now biting in.

Matt Reynolds: That was good, that was very crispy. Let me do a control bite of a wing that has already been sauced.

Dan Pashman:  Please do.We need like a crispometer. Like a, a sort of a sound effect detector that can detect crisp and crunch. 

Matt Reynolds: I, you know, I, you know, my snap, my first reaction is that, you know, you're, I think you're onto something here, Dan. The wings are slightly crispier when you pour the sauce on or dip the sauce on. You have to go to more work, obviously, but I think they are a little better that way.

Dan Pashman: Wow, well that concludes the interview. [LAUGHS]  

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Matt Reynolds, director and star of The Great Chicken Wing Hunt. Matt, I really enjoyed the film. I love your perspective on wings and love. And you're obviously a wise man. I look forward to seeing what you’re gonna  do next.

Matt Reynolds: It's been a pleasure eating these wings. I hope people enjoy the movie. I mean, I think there's something, you know, for everybody, even people who aren't super into food, but I'm talking to people who are listening to a food podcast, so. [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: The Great Chicken Wing Hunt is available on DVD and as a digital download. You can get it at ChickenWingHunt.com.