Dan Pashman: Pashman: This Episode contains explicit language. 

Dan Pashman: Antoni, so I feel like you strike me as a person who's very kind, thoughtful, sensitive, but I also have a theory about you. I think that may be underlying that kindhearted Canadian is also a person who has very strong opinions about food.

Antoni Porowski: I do. 

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: So let me hit you with a few quick Antoni hot takes here. Okay?

Antoni Porowski: Sure. 

Dan Pashman: You grew up in Montreal, which is famous for its bagels. What is the best bagel place in Montreal? 

Antoni Porowski: St. Viateur. 

Dan Pashman: OK. 

Antoni Porowski: St. Viateur Bagels. After Polish school every Saturday my dad would go and get a dozen sesame seed bagels and I would get like the 13th and it would always be warm and perfect and I would dip it in this — it's like a smoked salmon spread that was just fantastic. Ugh!

Dan Pashman: And you're not a poppy person.

Antoni Porowski: I am in desserts, but for bagels, I just — I love the — there's something about like the sweetness and the crunch of sesame seeds that I just — I much prefer. 

Dan Pashman: A poppy seed doesn’t bring much to a bagel.

Antoni Porowski: It doesn’t.

Dan Pashman: I've heard you say that you never order chicken in a restaurant.

Antoni Porowski: That's a lie. I did say that. I did say that. 

Dan Pashman: OK. 

Antoni Porowski: But that's a lie, 

Dan Pashman: OK. 

Antoni Porowski: As soon as you said that, I got the image of someone from the kitchen at Nomad here in New York and they serve the greatest chicken I've ever had in my life. It's deconstructed chicken. So the chicken breast, in between the skin in the breast, there's — it's like a truffle brioche spread. 

Dan Pashman: Oh my word.

Antoni Porowski: And then the chicken thighs? The chicken thighs are removed from the bone and tossed in like a like a nice citrusy aioli with some like supremes of grapefruits and stuff. That one changes every time. And then the chicken wings. I don't know how the hell they do this, but they remove it fully from the bone and it's kind of like a panko crust and they're just beautifully crispy. But ninety-five percent of the time, chicken’s for home. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it’s not for foodies. It’s for eaters. I’m Dan Pashman. Each week on our show we obsess about food to learn more about people. Antoni Porowski is one of the stars of Queer Eye, the Netflix reboot of the early 2000’s show Queer Eye For The Straight Guy. The premise: A group of five queer experts does a full lifestyle makeover for someone who needs it. Each of the “Fab Five” focuses on one aspect of this “hero’s” life: clothing, grooming, interior design, culture and, of course, food — which is where Antoni comes in. 

Dan Pashman: His job is to help the subject of each episode learn to cook something and to help them use food as a way to connect. There’s the episode with John, whose 10-year-old daughter sees him as a man-child. When Antoni finds out John’s daughter often makes her own breakfast, he teaches John to make pancakes for her. Then there’s an episode with Tyreek, a young man who’d been homeless and estranged from the woman who raised him. Antoni shows him how to make crab boil for her.

CLIP (ANTONI POROWSKI): I want Tyreek to have a fun experience, something that gets him connected to food. Crab boil is something that's very emotional to him. It ties him to family. It’s not the most technical recipe —

CLIP (TYREEK): Yeah. 

CLIP (ANTONI POROWSKI): It’s actually really simple... 

Dan Pashman: Before Queer Eye, Antoni was an actor, and he worked as a gallerist and personal assistant. In college he studied psychology. But wherever he was, good food was always close by. Like when he worked in restaurants as a waiter and busser. One of those jobs was at an Italian spot in Montreal.

Antoni Porowski: We had like Monday nights, almost nobody would work because that was like the least busy day. And so we would do like a potluck. And I became obsessed with risotto because I was broke and I wanted to make something nice and people who work in restaurants know good food. And so I would get like a bottle or two of prosecco, some arborio rice, a bunch of lemons, a big hunk of parm, and some like really good chicken broth that either I made my own or I had some from like a market or whatever. And I would just make like the perfect risotto and everyone would bring a bottle of wine and then we would all go out afterwards. It was the first time that I had actually made food for other people. Growing up, food was so incredibly important in my home. But my mother, who is a lot like me in many ways, like didn't want anyone in the kitchen helping her. So I sat on the other end of the kitchen table and I just like stared and watched. And I was just kind of transfixed and taking it all in and learning. So when it came time when I had my own life in my own apartment and I was able to do that, I already kind of had some of those tools. And then I understood — because I always judged her for it. I was always like, why won't you let me help you? Because I never cut the onions right. I never cut the carrots right. And I had such a resentment and then I understood and I was like, oh no. It feels really good to be able to do the whole thing yourself. It's hard for me to ask for help in the kitchen. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, I'm the same way. You know, I want to be the kind of person is like, you do this, you do that, hey, everyone is going to help. I was at a friend's house last night and she was like, "hHey, can you help put these hors d'oeuvres together? You chop the dates... you do the spread." And I was like, that's so nice. And, you know, it gives everyone to do. 

Antoni Porowski: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: But I'm still like, but they might not chop it just right. [LAUGHS]

Antoni Porowski: Right. But then if you watch like Salt Fat Acid Heat and you see Samin — and I forget what it was that she was doing, but she had a friend over and she had them partake in making this dish. And they were so excited to eat it afterwards because they felt empowered, and she got to teach them something in the process. There's an element of like making it something that's inclusive there. I'm really trying to be that person.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Antoni Porowski: It’s very hard. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, yeah. And me, too. 

Antoni Porowski: But I wish I could do more of that.

Dan Pashman: You and me both someday. That love of food, though, and how you felt it was so important, was that something that your parents instilled in you?

Antoni Porowski: Totally. I mean, growing like my most cherished memories as a kid were breakfast and dinner. Breakfast was always a massive spread with like a fresh cut open papaya with lime juice and a bit of salt. Any type of like fresh berries. And because we're Polish, we just had a shit-ton of charcuterie everywhere from the Polish deli and rye bread and like good cold butter and eggs. And like for dinner it was always a production. My parents traveled a lot and whenever we would travel with them, it was always about like, where are we going to eat? When we're having breakfast, we're thinking about like, where are we going for dinner? Which market are we going to?

Dan Pashman: But so I think kind of part of what I'm driving at here, Antoni, is that it seems like food really matters to you. Like in a way beyond just sort of like, we love to eat, it’s delicious. Some people care more about every meal than others. You’re somebody who cares a lot about eating delicious food. But like it seems a lot like it matters to you beyond that.

Antoni Porowski: It's incredibly important to me. I think it's — honestly, even if I'm like if I get ground turkey and some carrots and celery and I do a nice little mix for my dog, I know that she's like just a dog but it just it makes me feel so good knowing that I made something for her. Or even scrambled eggs on a Saturday morning with my boyfriend after a workout, and like watching the joy in their faces when you made something successfully when it's really good. Or when people try something for the first time and you get to be there for that. It's everything. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Antoni was not the obvious choice for Queer Eye’s food expert. As much as he loves food, he’s not a professional chef. He has no formal culinary training. And he was going up for the job against lots of people who were chefs. He says he struggled with impostor syndrome.

Dan Pashman: But Queer Eye picked him anyway. The show was a big hit right off the bat when it debuted in 2018, and it made Antoni a food celebrity overnight. But food celebrity was not a title he ever expected to have.

Antoni Porowski: Food, for me, has always been something that's been really intimate and kind of private, and I think until Queer Eye came out, I've always been a very compartmentalized person. When it comes to my sexuality and food, in particular, and is something that just ripped those two compartments and just shoved them in with everything else in the public space.

Dan Pashman: The reaction to the Queer Eye reboot was overwhelmingly positive. It’s a feel-good reality show, where the goal is to find people who’ve experienced hardship and help them improve their lives. 

Dan Pashman: But a lot of people found fault with Antoni and the way he cooked. His critics didn’t like that he put Greek yogurt in guacamole. They said the dishes he made were too simple.  A website called Junkee said maybe Antoni was, “an incredibly handsome person hired to act like a food expert.” Eater suggested the main reason he got the gig was that he knew Chopped host Ted Allen, who was the food expert on the original Queer Eye. 

Dan Pashman: It was crazy to me, looking back when Queer Eye first came out, how many of the stories about you started with like, "But can this guy actually cook?".

Antoni Porowski: Right.

Dan Pashman: And, you know, I would imagine that was a tough thing to deal with if you're someone who already kind of tends towards impostor syndrome.

Antoni Porowski: It's literally the worst thing you could possibly hear when you're already thinking that about yourself and then you have people who are saying that. And all you see, like all I saw was that. I took out all of the good and I just like focused in on all of the bad and it made me miserable. You know my therapist told me this when when the show came out, she was saying — she's like, well, for someone like you who so needs to be loved by everybody, she's like, that's impossible now. You're like a public person. Like the numbers game just increased exponentially. And they're going to be a lot more people who like you, but they're also going to be a lot more people who don't like you or don't what you do are critical for valid or invalid reasons, whatever the case may be. 

Dan Pashman: Despite that advice, Antoni still felt compelled to win over as many people as he could.

Antoni Porowski: It motivated me to write a first cookbook so that I can prove to people that I could actually cook, because people — I think a lot of people thought that, you know, the dishes that I was preparing on Queer Eye for the heroes were a reflection of my own knowledge, which they are. But there are a lot of plenty other things that I know how to do.

Dan Pashman: You said that sort of you feel like part of why you got the job was that you're accessible, that you're a great communicator was more about that than it was about culinary expertise. And I wonder, do you think that being very good looking ever sometimes works against you? Like people think that if you're good looking, that's why you got a certain opportunity?

Antoni Porowski: Totally. Absolutely, and I've spoken to people who have kind of like had to kind of like fight against that. I think — I'm not going to say everybody, but I think that for certain people, it's hard to imagine that somebody can be more than one thing. They struggled with me during the casting process of Queer Eye because I think there was this assumption that it was like, oh, no, he's like a struggling actor who's coming in and wants to be on a show, so this is going to be his thing. And near the end of of casting, I made a comment. We were in one of the show creator’s homes, and I was like, oh, you have a really cool Roger Sprunger table in your in your living room. And Roger Sprunger was like designer in the 60s or 70s. And I'm like obsessed with vintage furniture and postwar art. And they all kind of looked at me like, how the fuck, like what? How did you know that? And I was like, oh, that's like another one of my passions and they get me really excited. And they were like, oh, so you like that kind of stuff, too. And I feel like then they started to realize, oh no, he's more than just like this one thing. But I see that as like — it's like a fun challenge because you get to kind of like, prove people wrong.

Dan Pashman: Do you feel pressure to maintain a certain body image? 

Antoni Porowski: Yes.

Dan Pashman: Especially since you’re more in the public eye?

Antoni Porowski: One hundred percent. I think, in particular, with the first time that I saw my scenes in Queer Eye, I would notice, like certain mannerisms that I have. And the same went for kind of like what my appearance was. I think that has more to do with self-imposed comparison, namely Instagram, which is like get me on the wrong day and if I open up Instagram and I see my explore page and then suddenly it's like, I’m going to have juices and salad today. And for the next three days, I'm not going to have any carbs. And I know that a lot of that is self-imposed and that happens on days usually when, like, I wake up and I'm not feeling super confident. When I'm like there's a relationship with that and the impostor syndrome and all of that, because then I fall into compare and despair. Where I don't criticize other people, I really make up for it with myself. Like I can be my own worst critic. And that's a tricky balance as well, because I do love to eat healthy. I do love to work out and to be very active and go on hikes and do all kinds of activities and box and do all that kind of stuff. But at one point it's kind of like, OK, am I doing this to feel better? Or am I doing this because I'm trying to attain some kind of like an unrealistic ideal?

Dan Pashman: Right. Or are you doing it to sort of, like, punish yourself for something you shouldn't be punishing yourself for?

Antoni Porowski: Totally.

Dan Pashman: You describe yourself as an emotional eater. That seems to be like it must be a difficult thing to navigate, which is like a lot of pressure to maintain a certain body image, but also food as a way to deal with certain feelings. And I don't think — I personally think like emotional eating in moderation is fine. Like, once in a while you treat yourself have a have a giant ice cream sundae, have a pizza. 

Antoni Porowski: Totally. Absolutely.

Dan Pashman: But I wonder like how you navigate those to seem like possible contrasting extremes.

Antoni Porowski: Yeah. And I am — I am definitely a person of extremes. If I like take something on I do it a million percent. With the emotional eating part, it's like I try to just check in and this is like a daily thing for me that I kind of like check in on. The ice cream sundae? If it starts to happen where it's only happening on really shitty days, that's a sign. If it's only happening on really good days, that's a sign as well.

Dan Pashman: A sign of what?

Antoni Porowski: A sign that I'm kind of like, am I trying to get out of my feelings? If I reward myself for something, that's one thing. And sometimes you're just having a really bad day and all I want is like a vat of mac and cheese or like a whole entire pizza to myself. And that's fine. But I just try to make sure that I don't do that consistently and try and develop like habits or patterns with that. Same goes with punishing myself. Um, punishing is a strong word, but kind of like being very careful about what I eat and only eating like really healthy food. It's like everything in moderation, even moderation.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Coming up, Antoni and I talk about the principals of great salands. And he nearly collapses at the mere mention of one of his favorite dishes. Plus, we find out if writing a cookbook as a way of proving yourself actually works. Stick around.

MUSIC

 

+++ BREAK +++

 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. Last week on the show, I sit down for a meal with Lindy West, cultural commentator and author of Shrill. Lindy describes herself as fat, and explains to me why that’s her preferred word.

CLIP (LINDY WEST): I mean, I just think it's more honest. I, personally, don't like being referred to with euphemisms. They're still calling me fat, but they're also drawing attention to the fact that they're uncomfortable with my body. My end goal would be to make it OK to be fat and to to let people live their lives without having to carry around this stigma.

Dan Pashman: Lindy also tells me about the challenges of having a hot, skinny husband. That one’s up now, check it out. Okay, back to my conversation with Antoni Porowski.

Dan Pashman: After that first season of Queer Eye, Antoni continued to work through his impostor syndrome with the help of a therapist. The second season of the show aired the same year, and there were two more in 2019. Then Antoni published his first cookbook, Antoni in the Kitchen. You know, the one he said he wrote in response to people saying he didn’t know how to cook. So I wondered: Did writing a cookbook to prove his haters wrong actually work?

Antoni Porowski: Yes and no. I don't know — actually, I don't know if it worked but I think once it's started, I definitely, if I'm like being one hundred percent honest, I went in wanting to prove myself. And I did have ideas that were like a lot more ambitious and things that I wanted to make. But I remember when I had my first meeting with Rux Martin, my editor at Houghton, we were talking about the perfect bite. And the perfect bite for me is a medjool date or rutab date, but they are a lot harder to find, with a marcona almond, a little bit of blue cheese wrapped in prosciutto or bacon. And it's salty, sweet, sticky, crunchy. It just checks all the boxes for me. And she was like, stop, just keep it simple. I want that to be — that's going to be a recipe in your book, by the way, and just kind of like take it from there. And I kind of like lost myself in it. And then I kind of forgot that my intention was trying to prove myself to people. And I just kind of got really excited by being like, oh, my gosh, there was a raspberry mousse dome that my mother used to make for like literally every single special occasion and every Christmas, to bigos, which is like this hunters stew. And stuff that I ate when I was a student, when I was like really broke, and like cannellini beans with tomato paste and a bit of like fresh oregano and lemon juice and put a can of olive oil soaked tuna in there. And it was like, wow. Like I remember eating that all the time when I was broke and in school. And then I just kind of forgot about my original intention. Thank goodness, because I was able to just get the hell out of my own head in trying to prove myself and just fell in love with the process of recipe developing and remembering all of these food memories.

Dan Pashman: So you ended up with something that was true to you and something you are proud of? 

Antoni Porowski: Yes. Yeah.

Dan Pashman: And so in that sense, it did solve the problem just in a different way than what you anticipated?

Antoni Porowski: Not at all the way that I thought it would, which is usually how life turns out. 

Dan Pashman: Right. Instead of proving something to other people, you convinced yourself.

Antoni Porowski: Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, I never actually thought of that, but yeah. That's pretty cool.

Dan Pashman: Yeah, I think you should feel good about that. 

Antoni Porowski: Huh? Yeah. 

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: This has been a big breakthrough Antoni.

Antoni Porowski: I've had a few breakthroughs with you today, actually. 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Now, two years after his first cookbook, and with nearly 50 episodes of Queer Eye under his belt, Antoni has a second cookbook out called, Let’s Do Dinner. He wrote it with his co-author Mindy Fox. In the intro, he outlines his approach to dinner: eat plant-based early in the week, then progress to some heartier dishes, then when the weekend hits, cross over into comfort food.

Dan Pashman: I want to highlight a couple of the recipes in the new cookbook, in particular. Roasted cabbage steaks. And I love cabbage. I love that you write, “Cabbage is having a moment, which means that by default, Poland is, too.” 

[LAUGHING]

Antoni Porowski: So I hated cabbage as a kid. There was something about the smell and the preparation. Like my mother is an excellent home cook. But there are certain things that she was taught probably by her mother, that Polish mothers have been making all the time, and they would just boil the shit out of cabbage just like they would brussel sprouts, and they would be mushy and brown and they would add a little bit of cumin and that was it. But the cabbage steak is like — it's such a symbol for — I felt OK being Polish when I was growing up and then I moved to a rural community in West Virginia, where there wasn't that much diversity. And suddenly my name was weird. The fact that I spoke different languages was weird. I had a weird accent. My lunches were even weirder and I suddenly had this shame for who I was. And I wanted nothing to do with being Polish. I actually forgot Polish in a matter of two years. My parents were pissed, sent me back to Montreal. I had a Polish French tutor because I forgot French, as well. I started working in a Polish restaurant. It used to be owned by my auntie, where my dad was a waiter, where my sisters both worked. It's like the rite of passage in Montreal to work at Stash Cafe. It still exists. It's awesome. They make the best pierogis that grandmas make in the basement. I reference it in the first book and it's just so awesome. And the best cabbage rolls ever. 

Dan Pashman: OK. 

Antoni Porowski: With a nice little paprika-y tomato sauce, not with the creamy mushroom sauce like they do at Veselka. Veselka is great in New York, but I'm not crazy about that one.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] I knew you had strong opinions about food.

Antoni Porowski: I do. I do. I do. I do. You got it out of me. You got it out of me. But I started working at this restaurant. Suddenly, I was like, oh, cool. Like young Polish people, who are actually proud to be Polish and that's actually OK. And so here's this like cabbage steak thing that for me was inspired by like, I tried to think like, what would ABCV come up with, one of my favorite restaurants in New York. And it's just like giving life and really highlighting beautiful vegetables that are just bright and colorful and coming up with a really nice apple sauce that's just really creamy and some raisins for a nice little tart bite to it. And getting like that char on the cabbage. And it's like now I freaking love cabbage.

Dan Pashman: Yeah, I'm excited to cook that one because I love cabbage, too! You have an array of salads in the book.

Antoni Porowski: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: Is there like a blueprint for a good salad? Like what are the basic elements that any good salad has to have?

Antoni Porowski: One of the most important things is definitely which greens you're going to use. If you have baby arugula or spinach, you have to kind of eat them the day of. Kale will actually, like a mature kale, will still be pretty good the next day. It just softens up really nicely. But it's also knowing how to treat the greens as well and knowing what kind of a vinaigrette to put. The only thing worse than an underdressed salad is like an overdressed salad, where it's just like swimming in dressing or vinaigrette or whatever it is that you're putting on it. Having a crunch element.

Dan Pashman: Yes. 

Antoni Porowski: If it's not going to be.... if it's not going to be a crouton that's soaked in like a really nice vinaigrette, just to soften it up a little bit. I love using nuts. 

Dan Pashman: I feel like for salads, texture, a variety of textures is key. 

Antoni Porowski: Yes. Totally. 

Dan Pashman: You need something acidic and something fatty together and that needs to be in the right balance. 

Antoni Porowski: Totally. The vinaigrette. Yep.

Dan Pashman: Yes. To me, one of the most under considered part of salad composition is that it needs to be forkable. The different pieces — you need to be able to get them together into a bite. I like I love nuts in a salad, but I feel like you need something for the nuts to stick to. 

Antoni Porowski: They gotta cling.

Dan Pashman: I also like the Caesar salad, where it's like a gigantic like a half loaf of romaine lettuce that they serve with a steak knife in a restaurant? Like what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?

Antoni Porowski: Yeah. I know. 

Dan Pashman: You know? Like just so irritating. It looks great. 

Antoni Porowski: Right. 

Dan Pashman: But it's form over function.

Antoni Porowski: One thing I will say, and this was something I learned from the great Alice Waters. I was having a meal with her once at Via Carota and we were having their famous insalata verde with that awesome vinaigrette. She was eating the salad and she just started picking it up with her fingers. 

Dan Pashman: Yes!

Antoni Porowski: She was like, "Salad tastes really good when you eat it with your hands." 

Dan Pashman: One hundred percent. 

Antoni Porowski: And I was like, that's crazy. And then I did it and I was like, "Uou are absolutely right."

Dan Pashman: Yes. Part of the reason why eating a salad with your hands, it works is it is just kind of fun. 

Antoni Porowski: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: But also again, bite composition. You have better control over bite composition where you can fold the leaf over with your fingertips and get it all in your mouth. If I could — if it was long leaves of romaine and if I can pick them up with my hands and just hold the heart, the the stem end? 

Antoni Porowski: Totally. 

Dan Pashman: That I can get behind.

Antoni Porowski: So then you'll really enjoy — we have little romaine rafts with Turkish meatballs and grilled eggplant in the book, as well. That's really nice. 

Dan Pashman: Yes. 

Antoni Porowski: Which is like — that's how I like to eat during the week. Because it's like so textural. It's crunchy. You have like a nice, perfect meatball and then the chewiness of your eggplant that's seasoned just right.

Dan Pashman: You — I mean, that sounds fantastic. You remind me — I've been on a big larb kick, the Thai dish. [LAUGHS] Antoni just collapsed on his couch.

Antoni Porowski: I fucking love larb so much.

Dan Pashman: It’s so good. The ground meat and just, you get all those different flavors together in the fish sauce and the lime and the crunch... ugh. 

Antoni Porowski: Tons of  — I put tons of lemongrass in there. 

Dan Pashman: Mm-hmm. 

Antoni Porowski: I put in the cilantro stems, all of it. It's so good. 

Dan Pashman: It's so good. 

Antoni Porowski: It's healthy. It's packed with so much flavor. You need a nice aggressive hit of lime at the end. You get some beautiful Fresno chilies in there or some nice little like Thai birds, like really thinly sliced that just kind of like hit you. And then that fish sauce... It's one of my favorite things. My boyfriend loves it when I make that, as well.

Dan Pashman: Would you describe yourself as a perfectionist in the kitchen?

Antoni Porowski: If I make a mistake, like I used to really beat myself up for it. Especially, I mean, I haven't hosted a dinner party in a really long time but I was very good at sitting down and being like, "OK, so this pasta that I made it's just slightly overcooked because I took it out when it was al dente, but it sat in the sauce too long...". And then I would kind of like beat myself up over it before people had even the opportunity to enjoy a dish. Now I'm just kind of like ,I just don't take it as seriously anymore. Where it's sort of like, oh, well, if I made a mistake now, like, I won't make it next time, hopefully, and I'll learn from it.

Dan Pashman: What changed?

Antoni Porowski: Wow, these are really good questions, by the way. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Oh, thanks.

Antoni Porowski: I'm really glad I'm very caffeinated. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. 

[LAUGHING] 

Antoni Porowski: What's changed? I think the more that I — you know what it is? Like, I just stopped caring about trying to be perfect because it's actually impossible. And it kind of makes me think a little bit about Queer Eye as being and like living in the public space now. And impostor syndrome certainly makes its way. Like I just have some days where I wake up and I'm just like, [SIGHS] I'm a fraud. And then I have other days where it's just not really there. And now I'm at a stage, I think, in my life where I've kind of accepted the fact that it's there and I don't try to push it away or fight against it. And I just accept it as a thing. And if I wake up and I'm feeling sixty percent, I'm just going to do like one hundred percent of that sixty percent. And there's a freedom that came with that where my shoulders just kind of dropped. And I was like, I'm just going to be me and I'm going to continue to be inherently curious and obsessive over food and try to be better for myself and for whoever has to put my food in their mouth. [LAUGHS]

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: That’s Antoni Porowski, the food and wine expert on Queer Eye. His new cookbook, Let’s Do Dinner, is out tomorrow, September 14th. Or depending when you listen to this, maybe today! So you can preorder or buy it wherever books are sold.

Dan Pashman: Next week, who really invented Flamin’ Hot Cheetos? For years, the story went that a former janitor invented the snack, then worked his way up to being an executive at Frito Lay. But when an L.A. Times investigation called that story into question, the paper became the target of backlash. That’s next week.

Dan Pashman: While you’re waiting for that one, check out my conversation with Lindy West, author of Shrill. It's available now in your feeds. And while you're doing that, please Thanks.