Dan Pashman: We're just doing a little sound check here. I’m here with my wife Janie. Welcome to the ... Welcome to my award-winning podcast.

Janie Pashman: [LAUGHS] From the basement ... 

Dan Pashman: Yeah ... [LAUGHS]

Janie Pashman: With broken equipment.

Dan Pashman: Yeah. [LAUGHS] Yeah. Sorry, I gave you the bad mic stand. All right, just don't ... Just don't touch the mic stand. It might fall over.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: This is where the magic happens.

Janie Pashman: Yeah, I mean it's ... It's not impressive.

[LAUGHING] 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Welcome to September, we are past Labor Day. I hope you had a great end of your summer. I hope you are transitioning to the fall and doing well. As we turn to the fall, I want to let you know I have a bunch of very exciting live events coming up. I’m gonna be in London in just a few days. And then in October, Toronto, Brooklyn, Las Vegas, Canandaigua, New York, and a virtual cooking class that you can join from anywhere! I’m gonna tell you more about all of it later in the show but you can get details and tickets to everything at Sporkful.com/events.

Dan Pashman: All right, now let's get into it. And this week we are taking your calls about food related disputes with loved ones, and your hot takes and food questions. And who better to help me handle these questions about food and loved ones than my loved ones. Yes, that's right. This is a Pashman family call-in episode. We did this once before. You all loved it, so we're doing it again. My kids Becky and Emily will join us a little later to respond to some of your voice memos. But first, we have perhaps our all time most favorite Sporkful guest, perhaps even more popular than the host — yes, joining me now, it's my wife Janie. Hey, babe.

Janie Pashman: Hi.

Dan Pashman: Sporkful listeners know you well from our Mission: ImPASTAble and Anything's Pastable series as my doubter-in-residence. You're also an educator, a cereal enthusiast, and my biggest supporter.

Janie Pashman: It's fun to listen back on those episodes, but I feel like now I'm in a different place where I feel really proud of the success of, you know, the podcast, the pasta, and the cookbook. So it's been really exciting.

Dan Pashman: For folks who only know you from those series, how would you characterize your overall relationship with food?

Janie Pashman: Yeah, I mean, growing up, you know, my parents are immigrants from communist Czechoslovakia. They grew up, you know, on the food lines with very basic food options. So that's kind of how I grew up. You know, my mom is a great cook, but you know, she really only made a few things. We had a lot of leftovers, as opposed to your family who like planned vacations and the food and the restaurants, and so you know … 

Dan Pashman: Right. Or like went to visit my aunt Meryl in Texas and then that kicked off like the great Pashman fajita craze of the late '80s and early '90s, when there was always a flank steak marinating in our basement fridge?

Janie Pashman: Yeah, it was more like we're gonna pack our sandwiches in the car and you know, I didn't even think about what we were going to eat when we were at our destination.

Dan Pashman: Right. And even today in our relationship, I mean, is it fair to say that I think just a little bit more about food than you do? [LAUGHS] 

Janie Pashman: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I've come to appreciate it a little bit more and I do enjoy going out to nice places, but I still really like cereal for dinner.

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: Like when I'm traveling for work, what's going on here at dinnertime?

Janie Pashman: I feel like because of the kids, I'll cook something. But if it were just me, I would probably just have, like, bread and cheese, or cereal. I think the difference, just in terms of cooking, is that I don't enjoy it. Like I feel like if you had a day to yourself, especially in the winter, like you would love to just stay home and cook and have the kitchen to yourself. I would have a bowl of cereal [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] and go to the beach and read, you know?

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Janie Pashman: You know, I have learned like since the cookbook came out, I did ... I did attempt [Dan Pashman: Yeah ...] a couple of the recipes. Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: When I was on the book tour, you did cook one of the recipes from the cookbook. How'd it come out?

Janie Pashman: So, yeah, it was good.

Dan Pashman: Which one did you make again?

Janie Pashman: The miso … Miso butter and .. yes. 

Dan Pashman: Miso butter with scallions, yes.

Janie Pashman: So I do enjoy going out to eat, but I don't ... I don't think I think about it as much.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: So in a little bit we're going to take a call from a couple who are having some food related relationship issues. We're going to try to advise them. And later on, Becky and Emily are going to join me. But first, we have a couple of emails and voice memos that Sporkful listeners sent in, Janie. All right, I'm going to throw these at you. You're going to give me your thoughts. You ready?

Janie Pashman: I'm ready.

Dan Pashman: All right, our first question is an email that comes from Heath. He writes, “My husband and I have a difference of opinion when it comes to luncheon meat. I like to buy freshly sliced from the deli meat and cheese, and he likes to buy pre-packaged from the refrigerated department. I think prepackaged deli meat and cheeses are disgusting. They taste fake. He thinks I'm a little nuts that I will only eat meat freshly sliced in the deli department. Kind of funny because he's definitely the more bougie one in the relationship. But there you have it. Is there a big difference between the two or am I making this all up in my head? I feel like prepackaged is kind of slimy and fresh is not. Can you help me out? Best, Heath.” You're an avid consumer of a luncheon meat sandwich and a regular grocery shopper. What's your take?

Janie Pashman: Yes, I have thoughts on this, because ... 

Dan Pashman: Oh, good. 

Janie Pashman: [LAUGHS] Growing up, I did usually take a deli meat sandwich for lunch and it was almost always pre-packaged, but that was really just because it was so much cheaper. I feel like it was a special occasion when we could get the deli meat sliced, you know?

Dan Pashman: Right, right. Like your dad's bonus [Janie Pashman: Yeah.] came through, and you're like, "We're going to the deli counter, kids!"

Janie Pashman: Well, also because, you know, I grew up kosher, so, like, getting the kosher sliced deli meat was particularly expensive.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Janie Pashman: So, look, you always say this too, like it depends on people's tastes, but like, to me, it's so much better for it to be freshly sliced.

Dan Pashman: When you hear something being slimy — sometimes the pre-packaged ones have, like, liquid in them.

Janie Pashman: Yeah. It is a little slimy. But the thing is, like, even though, you know, I, now that I get a deli meat sliced and I like it better, there is that nostalgia ... 

Dan Pashman: Now that you're living high on the hog over here ... 

[LAUGHING] 

Janie Pashman: No, there's that ... There's kind of that nostalgia factor. I wonder if that's it for him. Maybe that just, like, tastes, like, [Dan Pashman: Right.] childhood sandwich.

Dan Pashman: It's like the Lunchables effect.

Janie Pashman: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: With almost any kind of food, the more of any food that gets exposed to air, the more it degrades in almost all cases. Like, you know, if you had a loaf of fresh bread, you wouldn't slice the whole thing and then leave it sitting out. Right? Because it's going to turn stale faster. So it's the same thing with the meat, when it's one big hunk, you slice it fresh, it's going to be better than if you sliced it three weeks ago and then you leave it sitting in that, whatever, that slimy saline solution, or whatever it is they put in there.

Janie Pashman: Yeah, and it has like a rim on it, and like, I'm thinking of, like, bolognese and salamis [Dan Pashman: Right.] and turkeys, there's this like, rim that I would always peel off. What is that?

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: The rim ... It's like a casing. 

Janie Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Right, right. 

Janie Pashman: I guess, it's the casing. 

Dan Pashman: I think that exists on the one that's fresh sliced also. 

Janie Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: I think it just depends on how the bologna is made.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: This one comes from Bill in Washington State. He wants to know, "How do I react if you or other people in the family don't like something that I cook?"

Janie Pashman: I don't think that you take it ... I feel like I take it worse ... 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Janie Pashman: When you don't like something I make.

Dan Pashman: Yeah.

Janie Pashman: I think that's more of a problem because you're like ... You start adding stuff to it and you're like, I'm going to put ketchup and chili crisp and mustard or stuff to like what I've made.

Dan Pashman: Yeah, you don't like when I add seasoning to something you've cooked.

Janie Pashman: Yeah, like, well, you're ... You make a whole different dish out of it, rather than just, like, try it the way that I've made it.

Dan Pashman: Well, I usually try it, but sometimes it's just — you know, like you and I — I like things spicier than you like them. I like things a little saltier than you like them, so sometimes I just feel like it needs a little extra zhuzh.

Janie Pashman: I guess, yeah. But then you do it — you're making the kids put extra stuff on it, too.

Dan Pashman: You don't like that? [LAUGHS] 

Janie Pashman: No, because I have like, just have them eat it the way I made it. And then you start bringing out all the extra toppings. You know, the add-ons. And then, now the kids want all of that instead of the original dish that I made.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] But like, don't you want them to experience maximum deliciousness?

Janie Pashman: Well, you know, I want them to see if they like it the way it was in the first place.

Dan Pashman: Okay. All right. [LAUGHS] 

Janie Pashman: I don't think I've ever put on a condiment onto something you made to try and make it taste better to me. I'll just eat it ... [LAUGHS] even if I ...

Dan Pashman: Well, sometimes you want to put, like, tartar sauce on salmon and I'm a little bit like ... 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Hey, for you, any fish gets tartar sauce. 

Janie Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: I got over it though. [LAUGHS] 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: All right, Janie, one more question. 

CLIP (KIMBERLEE): Hi Dan, this is Kimberlee from Los Angeles calling in with a food dispute. My fiancé and I have always enjoyed pushing each other out of our food comfort zones. He got me to enjoy dates, which was a texture I had hated for years. Now I love cucumber with a similar passion and just haven't been able to get him fully on board. Do I give up because it means more cucumber for me? Do I try to persuade him with new and exciting dips? He doesn't seem to mind it in things, but for the most part, he thinks it tastes good, and I quote, "like the smell on the street outside of a bar on a hot Monday morning." 

CLIP (KIMBERLEE'S HUSBAND): Oh, they're the worst!

CLIP (KIMBERLEE): Thanks so much. Love the show.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Janie Pashman: Okay, so my first thought is, "I wonder if it's the mushy middle?" 

Dan Pashman: Yes. 

Janie Pashman: Because that's an issue for people. So at our house, like, I don't love a mushy middle either. Some people scoop it out, but there's, like, the mini cucumbers, that have ... 

Dan Pashman: Right, sometimes called Persian cucumbers.

Janie Pashman: Right. And those don't have as many seeds in the middle. So I wonder, you know if that's the issue, like, rather than buying like the big cucumbers. Because in our garden, we're growing the big ones. But actually, if the middle, the seed part, is too mushy, I sometimes scoop that out. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, there are some recipes that will tell you to do that. 

Janie Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Like every summer tomato season I always make Ina Garten's panzanella at least one time and she tells you to split the cucumber the long way and then run a spoon through the middle and take out the mushy … because also that stuff has a lot of water. So it will kind of, like, water down your salad. 

Janie Pashman: Yeah. You know, if there's something he really likes like hummus or, you know, like a yogurt dip or something, definitely use the cucumber as a dipping tool. 

Dan Pashman: Part of me as we keep talking about this, I'm thinking like, I like a cucumber. But still, like, they don't have that much flavor. To me, they're kind of like a role player in any recipe. I'm never super excited to eat cucumbers. Is this really, like, worth all the effort, like, in this relationship? Like, maybe just let the cucumbers go?

Janie Pashman: I guess so.

Dan Pashman: I think also, you know, a cucumber salad, if you slice the cucumbers on a mandolin extra thin ... 

Janie Pashman: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: That also might help.

Janie Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: I went through a phase when we lived in our apartment in Brooklyn — this is the kind of thing we did before we had kids, right, like infused gin with cucumbers. Remember when I did that? 

Janie Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. And that was, like, mildly good.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: All right, Janie. We're about to open the phone lines and take a live call. You ready?

Janie Pashman: Ready.

Dan Pashman: All right. Hi, who's this?

Neal: This is Neal in Pierre, South Dakota, and I'm here with my wife, Sam.

Dan Pashman: Hey, Neal and Sam. How are ya?

Sam: Good.

Neal: Good.

Dan Pashman: So Neal, you wrote in originally. Tell us, what is the issue that you're calling in now to discuss?

Neal: So, Sam and I divvy up meal planning and do it every other day. Whoever plans the meal also cooks the meal and ...

Dan Pashman: Every other day, one of you cooks.

Neal: Right, but Sam has rules about what I can choose to put down. So, no two proteins in consecutive days. So, if we have steak one night — can't have burgers the next night. And then, also, similar dishes, like regional dishes, really can't be twice in one week. So, if she plans spaghetti on Monday and Thursday I want to do lasagna — just not an option because that's too similar.

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Neal: As far as I'm concerned, I'd eat the same thing for three days, but you know ... [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Sam: I can't.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: And this is, like, a very silly detail question, but like, when does the week begin? When does the week turn over?

Sam: Monday, I guess is kind of ... 

Dan Pashman: Could you have Italian food on Sunday and Monday since it's a new week?

Sam: Um ... 

Neal: Well, Dan, that's one of my hacks ... 

[LAUGHING] 

Neal: Sometimes I can squeak something by, you know?

Janie Pashman: So there's no leftovers? Every day is a different meal?

Sam: So I usually eat the leftovers. That's also part of why I don't — like, eating too much of the same thing all week is too much for me.

Dan Pashman: Why is that that you're the one eating the leftovers, Sam?

Sam: Just cause I'll eat them. [LAUGHS] I'll take them to lunch and eat them for breakfast. Part of using up what you got.

Dan Pashman: Got it. Can you talk ... Just talk a little more, Sam, about why you feel so strongly about this.

Sam: I get bored of things really fast. You know, I can't eat the same thing every day of the week. And like, we like so much different ... so many different things.

Janie Pashman: Yeah, at first I was like, this is a little nuts, but then I was like, I actually understand, Sam, because I get sick of foods too. So I do like variety. When I was growing up, because my mom worked, you know, she had a second job in the evenings, and so she made a ton of food on Sunday. And that was like the food for the week. So I think that's where I started — I just don't like leftovers because I remember eating, like, the same foods …

Neal: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Sam: I get that!

Dan Pashman: You know, like I ... If I cook a dinner that I like, I'm excited to eat it the next day. I'm going to run out of it before I'm going to get tired. Just today for lunch, I had leftover grilled chicken thighs that I had marinated in the New York Shook preserved lemon barbecue sauce ... 

Neal: Mmm. 

Dan Pashman: And then I grilled those up and I had some tahini in the fridge and I put those on top of the chicken thighs and I had it for dinner last night. And I woke up this morning and couldn't wait to eat it again.

Janie Pashman: I would eat that again. 

[LAUGHING] 

Janie Pashman: But, no, I really like the grilled chicken, so I would do that. But I want fresh rice. I don't want the rice from yesterday.

Dan Pashman: Now, Neal, why aren't you helping to eat the leftovers?

Neal: Well, if it's something I really like, I do. Generally, you know, we don't have a lot left over. Usually, it's just like one portion. Like, if we get a whole pork tenderloin, I'll cook tenderloin and we'll eat it, like, tenderloin on Tuesday and then she might take some for lunch or whatever. And then Thursday, I'll use the rest to make Cuban sandwiches or something like that with it.

Dan Pashman: Oh, so that doesn't violate the rule, Sam?

Sam: Right. Yep. That's okay. Yep. We'll do that quite a bit.

Dan Pashman: Because there's one day in between because it's not the same cuisine. 

Sam: Yeah. And we completely change it up.

Dan Pashman: Neal, give me more about your perspective here. Like you wrote to us, what do you hope is going to come out of this conversation?

Neal: Maybe you'll side with me and I'll get to pick whatever I want. 

[LAUGHING] 

Neal: I don't think we'd ever convinced Sam to give in on that, but validation. 

[LAUGHING] 

Janie Pashman: So how far in advance does the meals get — is it like every week? Like on Sunday you're planning for the week or is it for the whole month? 

Neal: Usually, Friday and Saturday we plan out about the next week.

Sam: Yeah, if I'm really busy I try to do it earlier in the week.

Neal: Cause she'll go shop Friday night after the kids go to bed. And then I go …

Sam: Alone. [LAUGHS] 

Neal: Yeah, then I'll go Saturday while they're napping or whatever. 

Janie Pashman: I mean, I just also want to say that it's — I'm very impressed with that because I feel like basically at three or four o'clock every day, I'm like, "What are we doing for dinner? Like what is happening? Like, should I just get pizza?"

Dan Pashman: Yeah, I'm a little more likely to be in the morning and be, like, thinking ahead. But you're right, sometimes I forget too, but that is ... It is good. I, actually — this morning, remember you were out doing errands and I called you? The reason why I called you was to ask you what you want for dinner tonight because maybe I would defrost something and I completely forgot. We got sidetracked chatting about something else. I totally forgot to ask. Now it's two in the afternoon and we have no plan for tonight. So ... [LAUGHING] after we hang up from you guys, we got to figure out what we're ... what I'm making.

Janie Pashman: I was thinking like if we did that in our household, it would be like, you would make something Monday that was, you know, like, you know, maybe a pasta dish. I would be like, we're having scrambled eggs for dinner Tuesday, [LAUGHING] Wednesday would be like grilled chicken, Thursday is like ...

Janie and Dan Pashman Together: Cereal.

[LAUGHING] 

Sam: Great. 

Dan Pashman: Janie, what are your thoughts here? What advice do you have for Sam and Neal?

Janie Pashman: I think, you know, if the whole point is that each of you gets a day to choose, I'm not sure it's that fair to put on restrictions on what the other person should be doing on their day. But on the other hand, you know, you're a family, you have to make compromises. 

Sam: Mm-hmm. 

Janie Pashman: What if you each forget about the restrictions, so you can create your meal, but you each get two vetoes a month? Twice a month, you can have a veto and ask your partner to change the meal for that day.

Sam: I think we can probably work on that. Yeah. 

Neal: That sounds good to me. Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. That's actually very similar to what I was going to suggest, which is sort of like, you know, twice a month, let Neal break the rules, which is ... It's another way around to the same destination of what you're saying, which is like, you can keep the rules roughly in place, but open up a little bit of space to play with the rules. It doesn't have to be quite so rigid and that you kind of meet in the middle.

Sam: We can do that. Yeah. 

Neal: I like that. 

Sam: Yeah. And I will say Saturday nights is kind of the night where we each, on our night, we get to cook what we want. So that's our date night. So the kids get something that they want and go to bed and then we get to just go to town with whatever. [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Right. So tell me, like, what are you two making on those nights?

Neal: I do a lot of steak. What'd you do, a sriracha? 

Sam: I did honey sriracha wings. Oh! I did a chicken katsu, you know, with the sauce and everything. But carbonara is a favorite of mine to cook. Like, I make a good carbonara.

Neal: Crab legs, if I happen to catch them on sale or something. Yeah, the fancy fine dining. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, yeah. 

Neal: And then something that goes with wine, [Sam: Yeah.] I try to make sure ...

Janie Pashman: That sounds amazing.

Dan Pashman: Yeah, we'll see you Saturday night. Janie and I are coming. We'll be there. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Well, Sam and Neal in Pierce, South Dakota, thank you so much for calling in. Good luck with that meal prep. 

Janie Pashman: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Sounds like you're doing an amazing job, frankly, cooking so many different dishes and being so organized about it. I'm sure you'll figure this out.

Sam: Yeah, thank you. 

Neal: Yeah, thank you. If you're rolling through South Dakota, let us know. 

Dan Pashman: I will, for sure.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: All right, well Janie, thanks so much for being here and for helping Neal and Sam with their predicament. I think we gave them some good ideas.

Janie Pashman: Yeah, I hope so. Maybe they'll call back and let us know how it goes. 

Dan Pashman: Right, right. All right, it's great having you as always. Thanks, babe. 

Janie Pashman: Thanks. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Now coming up, our daughters Becky and Emily are replacing you in the hot seat to help me respond to more of your food questions, including some very hot takes on ketchup. That’s after the break, stick around.

MUSIC

+++ BREAK +++

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. And as I mentioned at the top of the show, I have tons of great events coming up this fall. First, I’m off to London for the London Podcast Festival this Saturday, September 14th. I’ll be talking with comedian Ed Gamble, host of the Off Menu podcast. Then in October, I’m doing book talks, demos, cooking classes, dinners, all kinds of fun stuff. I'll be doing a cooking demo and talk in Toronto in conversation with chef Anthony Rose, food will be served, talks will be had, books will be signed — it's gonna be phenomenal from the Prosserman JCC  — can't wait for that on. I’ll also be in Las Vegas teaching a pasta master class at the Wynn Hotel — two events in Las Vegas, cause the first one already sold out. I'm doing a cooking class and talk in Canandaigua New York, in the Finger Lakes, and then a virtual cooking class. No matter where you are, you can join this one. And if you sign up for this virtual cooking class, and you can't make it the day that's running, you get to watch the video any time you want at your convenience. I'm gonna be cooking keema bolognese and kimchi carbonara. Special appearance from Saucy Spicetress, Asha Loupy. It's gonna be so delicious and tons of fun. That's in partnership with our friends at Milk Street. So it's gonna be a big fall and I can't wait to see you. Get info and tickets on all these events at at sporkful.com/events. Thanks.

Dan Pashman: Now, back to your questions for the Pashman family and I'm joined now by two very special guests, my daughters Becky and Emily. Becky, age 13. Emily, age 11. Well, hi girls. Nice to see you. 

Emily Pashman: Nice to see you too, Father Daniel.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Welcome back to the show. 

Emily Pashman: Thank you. Thank you for having us. 

[LAUGHING] 

Becky Pashman: Hi. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Now listeners know the two of you well. They've heard you in the Mission: ImPASTAble and Anything’s Pastable series, you were basically, let's face it, the stars of those series. 

Becky Pashman: Pretty accurate. 

Emily Pashman: [LAUGHS] Correction, I am the star of the series.

Becky Pashman: You brat. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Now, but I don’t know if you remember this, this exact thing we're doing right here in this episode, where you two respond to listener voice memos — we've done this before. Before Mission: ImPASTAble, before Anything's Pastable, about six years ago to the day — you remember, Becky?

Becky Pashman: I remember. 

Emily Pashman: I do not recall. [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: Okay.

Becky Pashman: Of course. Of course, Emily doesn't remember.

Dan Pashman: So Becky you were 7 and a half, Emily you were 5, so it was a long time ago. And I thought it would maybe be fun to play a clip from that appearance of yours. You ready? So this is just a short clip of the two of you talking about culinary combinations that you invented back then:

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): What are some of your recent things you said put on The Sporkful?

CLIP (EMILY PASHMAN): Well, I put smoked salmon with avocado.

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): Smoked salmon with avocado, yes, that was something you invented for The Sporkful. All right Becky, you have one food innovation you want to share as well?

CLIP (EMILY PASHMAN): Yeah.

CLIP (BECK PASHMAN): Umm ...

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): That was a great idea. [LAUGHS] 

Emily Pashman: I sound like a baby.

CLIP (BECKY PASHMAN): So sometimes when I’m at Panera and I get chips so I take a chip and I dip it in the macaroni and cheese and I get one of the macaroni and cheese in the chip, and it tastes really good.

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): I love that.

Dan Pashman: Thoughts?

Becky Pashman: I sound like such a little cutie patootie. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Emily Pashman: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: You're still a little cutie patootie. 

Becky Pashman: I was such a genius back then. 

Emily Pashman: I kind of sounded like a cat. 

Becky Pashman: I'm definitely going places. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Emily Pashman: Smoked salmon avocado. 

Becky Pashman: That sounds nasty. 

Dan Pashman: What?

Emily Pashman: Yeah, I don't really know ...

Dan Pashman: Well you love salmon avocado sushi rolls.

Emily Pashman: Oh yeah.

Dan Pashman: Becky, you still put potato chips in everything.

Becky Pashman: Of course, potato chips belong in everything.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Emily Pashman: Potatoes ...

Becky Pashman: Such does pepper.

Dan Pashman: Right.

[LAUGHING]

Becky Pashman: What?

Dan Pashman: So that was then. This is now. Let's bring it back to the present day. Some Sporkful listeners reached out. They sent in some questions and I'm going to share them with you. And I want to hear your thoughts we're going to discuss, okay? 

Emily Pashman: Okie dokie artichokie.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Here is the first voice memo.

CLIP (JASON): This is Jason from Middlebury, Vermont. My wife insists on putting ketchup on macaroni and cheese. I was aware of this before we got married. So I knew what I was signing up for, but unfortunately, now she has corrupted our two kids. Whenever we have macaroni and cheese for dinner, 75 percent of our household coats it in ketchup. I'm not talking about a little squirt of ketchup on the side. I'm talking about full coating, like, ketchup icing on top of the mac and cheese. It's disturbing. I would love to get the kid's take on this. Gross? Not gross? Perfectly acceptable? What are your thoughts?

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Emily Pashman: Does the mac and cheese become red?

Dan Pashman: Pretty much. Like icing, like imagine it was ketchup icing he's saying. 

Emily Pashman: Okay, that is, like, wrong but at least you guys have mac and cheese for dinner.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Oh, yeah, you're so deprived. So ketchup on mac and cheese, you two are the number one — tied for number one at mac and cheese experts that I know. What do you think?

Emily Pashman: [LAUGHS] It's worse than gross. 

Dan Pashman: Worse than gross. Becky?

Becky Pashman: So I just feel that's kind of wrong. Those two flavors just don't go together. You should try substituting ketchup for a barbecue sauce.

Dan Pashman: But mac and cheese ... Mac and cheese is cheese and pasta. And ketchup, like you eat cheeseburgers and put ketchup on it. So you eat cheese and ketchup together.

Emily Pashman: Yeah, but that's different ... 

Becky Pashman: Ketchup is, like, too sweet for mac and cheese. 

Emily Pashman: Cheeseburgers and mac and cheese are different because I feel like in cheeseburgers most of the time it's more of the burger. And then usually there are other stuff in it, like there's lettuce and tomato [Dan Pashman: Right.] and onions. And then ketchup is just one of the things that people like to put in it. But mac and cheese and ketchup is just wrong. If you're putting ketchup on mac and cheese, I don't think you deserve the right to be eating mac and cheese.

Dan Pashman: That's a bold statement. I mean, look, I feel like we shouldn't yuck people’s yum, though.

Emily Pashman: But that is yuck.

Becky Pashman: That's the reason they asked us the question.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Becky Pashman: Well, mac and cheese is supposed to be, like, savory, and ketchup is, like, sweet, so ... 

Dan Pashman: But aren’t burgers savory? Aren’t hot dogs savory?

Becky Pashman: You still don't put that much ketchup on your burger, though, just a little bit, so it doesn't make it [Emily Pashman: Yeah.] too sweet because it's still supposed to be savory.

Emily Pashman: If you really want that much ketchup, you might as well just eat plain ketchup. 

Becky Pashman: I still think barbecue sauce would be good with mac and cheese. It's just better.

Emily Pashman: I don't think barbecue sauce would be that good either.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: All right, next voice memo, which also relates to ketchup.

CLIP (RUBEN VERBES):  Hello Sporkful, I'm Ruben Verebes, a food journalist based in Hong Kong. And I cannot stand ketchup. After a horrifying experience during school lunches of my youth, where my classmates would slap together beige and white food and just horribly overcooked meat with the sickly acidic red sauce, I have just straight-up hated the condiment with a passion. Its putrid smell and gross taste has enabled millions to offend chefs worldwide. You're basically telling someone that you think their food is terrible and you have to use this sickly sweet sauce to flavor it yourself. Using ketchup may also mean that you, yourself, have poor taste in food — harsh, I know. [EMILY PASHMAN LAUGHS] Ketchup is straight-up bad for society [LAUGHING] and it should be abolished. 

Dan Pashman: Should be abolished! Becky, you first. What are your thoughts on this very harsh, bold statement against ketchup?

Becky Pashman: Well, I can see where this guy is coming from because sometimes ketchup can be really sweet and if you put too much of it, then it can ruin the flavor of what you're actually eating. But I think that, depending on what you're eating, with, like, a little bit of ketchup, then it can make it taste better as long as you don't use too much.

Dan Pashman: He's calling for a worldwide ban against ketchup.

Becky Pashman: I think that's a little bit, um ...

Emily Pashman: Over the top. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. [LAUGHS] 

Emily Pashman: I, personally, love ketchup aside from when I said about the mac and cheese, like it's a bad combination, but I do love ketchup. And I understand that if you, like, drench it in ketchup then it will take the flavor away but I do not think that ketchup should be abolished, [LAUGHING] and I don't think that means that I have poor taste ... [LAUGHING] cause I like ketchup.

Dan Pashman: You tell 'em, Em.

Emily Pashman: Like …

Dan Pashman: Yeah. Look, I love ketchup in moderation. As I get older and I have moved — my palate has moved away from sweet things a little bit. I love — like with burgers and hot dogs, I'll do like a 50-50, ketchup -mustard combo. But I still love ketchup. I love some ketchup with fries.

Emily Pashman: It usually adds to the taste. I understand if he has a bad association with ketchup or whatever, but that doesn't mean that it's, like, bad.

Dan Pashman: It seems to me like maybe there's some deeper issues happening here. Like, something else happened to this [Becky Pashman: Yeah.] kind gentleman in the lunch room that caused him to have some terrible association between being in school and ketchup.

Becky Pashman: My bro might have some PTSD. 

[LAUGHING] 

Becky Pashman: Ruben, it's okay. You don't have to hate ketchup. Give it a shot.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, don't blame the ketchup, Ruben. It's okay. 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: All right, next voice memo.

CLIP (DANIEL): Hi, this is Daniel from Washington, D.C., and I just want to rant to say that it should not be called matzo ball soup. Since when do we call soups by the starch in them? The matzo balls don't flavor the soup. The soup flavors the matzo balls. Matzo balls are delicious, but you could also have them in any other soup, just like noodles, or rice, or lokshen, or kreplach, or whatever. Please stop calling it matzo ball soup, it's chicken soup with matzo balls.

Dan Pashman: All right, girls. Emily, you first this time, as a lover of matzo ball soup yourself, what do you think about the idea that it is named incorrectly?

Emily Pashman: Well, I know I keep bringing up the mac and cheese thing. If you're mac and cheese, that's pasta with cheese. That's the two parts of the food. You wouldn't call it just cheese or pasta. Like, matzo ball soup isn't matzo ball soup without the matzo balls.

Dan Pashman: All right, that's a good argument. Becky, thoughts?

Becky Pashman: Well, I feel like it depends on the soup. Like, I feel like it can be called matzo ball soup because matzo balls is, like, the star of the soup. Like, for tomato soup, tomato is the star. Like, it's supposed to always taste like tomato no matter what you put in it. But for matzo ball soup, it's like, if you called it chicken soup, I wouldn't really picture it with matzo balls.

Dan Pashman: He's saying it should be called chicken soup with matzo balls.

Becky Pashman: That's too long. Yeah, that's too many words.

Emily Pashman: Too many syllables. 

[LAUGHING] 

Emily Pashman: I would just call it matzo ball soup.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Here's one we got from Christine in Wisconsin. She wants to know … She wanted to ask both of you, if we had company coming over, what recipe from Anything's Pastable would you say that I should make?

Becky Pashman: Well, for me, it depends on the situation, because if it was like a barbecue, then I would probably pick like a pasta salad, and if it was that, then I would want the … Wait, what's the one with, like, the lemon preserves? 

Dan Pashman: Oh, the roasted artichokes and preserved lemon?

Becky Pashman: Yeah, that's a pasta salad. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, it can be. Yeah. 

Becky Pashman: Yeah, so I would choose that if it was something that was called for like a pasta salad. But if pasta was, like, the main course, I really like the kimchi a la grigio one. 

Dan Pashman: Mmm, yes. 

Becky Pashman: That's my favorite, so I would probably pick that one.

Dan Pashman: Emily?

Emily Pashman: Pasta pizza would be good because It's a very yummy food for, like, [Dan Pashman: Right.] parties or whatever.

Dan Pashman: One thing I've been wanting to do, I haven't had a chance to do this, but I think we should do pasta pizza as an appetizer when we have, like, friends over. It's the kind of thing, like, take it out of the oven as people are arriving, chop it into small squares, put it on the cutting board out on the coffee table while people are having drinks, getting settled. This could be, like, before watching a football game or something. You know, if your friends are watching a game, snack on some pasta pizza.

Becky Pashman: Like a pasta pizza charcuterie board.

Dan Pashman: Whoa! Yes! Yes! And you could, like, put it on the board cut up in small pieces. Maybe there could be, like, some meats in one corner. There could be nuts. There could be other sort of, like, toppings that you could almost, like, place on top of a little tiny square of pasta pizza.

Emily Pashman: Like all the different toppings here — put like pepperoni, mushrooms, plain, that, but like in pasta pizza. 

Dan Pashman: All right, All right, we're gonna have to try that.

Becky Pashman: And of course, my bestie, cracked pepper. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. [LAUGHS] 

Emily Pashman: Yeah, pepper and salt.

Becky Pashman: Cracked pepper belongs on everything.

Dan Pashman: Yeah.

Becky Pashman: And there's no limit to how much you can add.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Final question, and I asked this one to Mom also, but I wanna hear your response. Bill in Washington State wanted to know, how do I react if I cook something for the family and you don't like it?

Becky Pashman: Well, usually you're just happy that we tried it because you want us to try new foods even if we don't like it. 

Dan Pashman: Now to follow up on a point that Mom made when we were recording the earlier part of this show, how does she react if she cooks something and some or all the family doesn't like it?

Becky Pashman: She might, like, guilt trip us, and she'd be like, "I worked so hard to make this meal," and then we would feel bad and eat it.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Emily, anything to add to that?

Emily Pashman: You guys kind of know what we like, so you don't really cook lots of stuff often that we don't like.

Dan Pashman: That's true. What you're saying is your life is pretty great. That's all the time we have for today. Glad we could end on a positive note.

Emily Pashman: I wasn't saying that, actually.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: All right, time to wrap up. Becky, read thins line.

Becky Pashman: That’s Becky Pashman, you can catch her on the junior varsity tennis team. Yay!

Dan Pashman: And the rest of that sentence, Emily?

Emily Pashman: You can find Emily Pashman on the softball field or in dance class.

Dan Pashman: Now, kids, listen, before this episode goes up, we're gonna do a taste test, cause there were a lot of opinions in this episode about putting ketchup, barbecue sauce, things like that on mac and cheese. We're gonna do a taste test, we're gonna make a video, we're gonna put it on Instagram. 

Emily Pashman: Barbeque sauce on mac and cheese is crazy!

Dan Pashman: Folks can find that when you follow me on Instagram, @thesporkful.

Dan Pashman: Girls, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure as always. Thank you for sharing your wit and wisdom with Sporkful listeners.

Becky Pashman: Anytime.

Emily Pashman: I guess, goodbye for now.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Next week on the show, we hear the story of the formerly enslaved man who taught Jack Daniel to make whiskey. And the story of the woman who wanted to make that enslaved man’s contributions to American whiskey known to the world today. That’s next week.

Dan Pashman: While you’re waiting for that one, check out last week’s episode with Jose Ralat, taco editor at Texas Monthly. Yes, you heard that right — he’s got the best job in the world. Jose hits the road to search out some of the best tacos in Texas all for the very special, very rare taco issue of Texas Monthly. That one’s up now, check it out. 

Dan Pashman: And hey, did you know that you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? Then there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to SiriusXM.com/sporkful.