CLIP (JOSE RALAT): We're on the road to San Antonio, and I am painfully full. And I didn't finish anything. But this is important to understand, it is Sunday in Texas. We eat barbacoa. So as soon as we get our hands on some, we're going to eat it.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it’s not for foodies, it’s for eaters. I’m Dan Pashman. Each week on our show we obsess about food to learn more about people. Now before we get into this week's show, I have a lot of very exciting upcoming events that I want to make sure you know about. First off, September 14th, next week, I'm going to London for the London Podcast Festival. I’ll talk with comedian Ed Gamble, who's also the co-host of the podcast Off Menu — can't wait to see you in London. Then for the whole month of October, I am celebrating National Pasta Month with more Anything's Pastable related events. I’ll be in Brooklyn, teaming up with Edy Massih from Edy’s Grocer, for a one-night-only dinner. I'll be doing a virtual cooking class with Milk Street which you can join from anywhere! And if you sign up, you can watch the class at your convenience, whenever it works for you. Asha Loupy, the Saucy Spictress, will also join me. We're gonna make the keema bolognese and kimchi carbonara. It's gonna be so good. I'm doing two events at the Wynn hotel in Las Vegas. Then, on to Canada! Yes, Toronto, I am coming to see you. I don't know why it's taking me this long to get my butt up north to Toronto. I know we got a lot of listeners up there. I'm very excited to come and see you. We're gonna be doing an event with a cooking demo and a conversation and a book signing with Chef Anthony Rose at the at the JCC.  I cannot wait to be there in Toronto. And then it all wraps up in Canandaigua, NY — book talks and classes and tastings in one big day on October 22nd. For details and tickets to all these events, please go to Sporkful.com/events. All right, let’s get to the show. 

Dan Pashman: That guy you just heard is Jose Ralat. He’s the first Taco Editor in the history of Texas Monthly magazine. They’ve had a barbecue editor since 2013, but Jose started his gig in 2019. The announcement of his hiring made national news, summed up by the headline at NPR, "The Job You Wish You Had: Taco Editor". Jose’s assignment: Travel around Texas, eat tacos, write about them. And while a lot of us might dream of landing this gig, few of us would be as qualified as Jose. He had already been blogging about tacos in Texas for years, not only covering places to eat but also doing extensive research on taco history. And as he made clear as soon as we started chatting, he’s not afraid to drop hot takes, as he did in an interview with The New Yorker. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): Everyone knows burritos are tacos. I caused a shitstorm when I said that. I just said in passing, "You know burritos are tacos," because there are hundreds of years of scholarly history that backs me up. Unfortunately, not everyone reads that. 

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Back in 2020, Jose brought together his knowledge and his many opinions, for the Texas Monthly Taco Issue. And this issue only comes out once every five years, and this was the first time they did it with him as taco editor. Later in the show, we're gonna ride shotgun with Jose as he criss-crosses Texas on one of his taco-finding expeditions. But before that, I wanted to learn more about how he got here. How do you end up with one of the most coveted jobs in America?

Dan Pashman: Even before you started writing about food, you knew you wanted to be a writer. You studied poetry in college, you were always drawn to the written word. Why? 

Jose Ralat: I thought that it would be easier to communicate because of my speech impediment. I thought I didn't have to talk to people. And boy, was I wrong.

[LAUGHING] 

Jose Ralat: I talk to people now more than ever. I was never not a talker. I was in poetry slams. I was doing all these crazy things that I probably shouldn't be doing because of my speech impediment. 

Dan Pashman: Jose has had a stutter since he was a kid, related to the fact that he has epilepsy. I should say, to be transparent, this interview has been edited. We’ve trimmed some of the longer pauses between words. Jose lived most of his life in New York, his family’s from Puerto Rico, and tacos were not a huge deal for him growing up. But his wife is Mexican-American from Texas. And when they started dating, they bonded over the tacos in their neighborhood of Sunset Park, Brooklyn. 

Jose Ralat: There was this little old lady that set up this wooden shack right up against a bodega, I think on 44th street. And she would pop open the awning with a piece of wood and sell $2 lamb barbacoa tacos. 

Dan Pashman: Jose was beginning to discover the world of tacos. But when he started traveling to Texas with his wife, he was blown away.

Jose Ralat: I had no base of knowledge other than the fact that my wife is Mexican-American and that she introduced me to the foods that she had grown up with. All the previous experience did not prepare me for the depth of diversity and the tweaks and regionalities to dishes.  

Dan Pashman: In 2009, they moved to Dallas and Jose began writing a blog called The Taco Trail. The idea was to eat tacos all around Dallas, exploring the city by public transit. Because of his epilepsy, Jose doesn’t drive but he is by nature a completist. Dallas was not enough. He began expanding his reach. In the end, he spent ten years eating and writing about tacos all over Texas and Mexico. In April of 2020, he published a book, American Tacos: A History and Guide. In it, he argues that America’s regional tacos deserve just as much attention as Mexico’s. And that Tex-Mex needs to be understood and respected, just the same way Mexican food is. And that's an idea I was curious to discuss.

Dan Pashman: Me, personally, and I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to what is Tex-Mex, what is Mexican, I always, in my head, had this idea that Tex-Mex is sort of the bastardization. And Mexican is the "real or authentic". And so when in doubt, if it's a food that I encounter in Texas, I'd usually call it Tex-Mex because I'm worried that I will be offensive to Mexican food and culture by saying that it's Mexican. But I know that you have a different approach. So can you kind of explain that to me? 

Jose Ralat: Sure. So Tex-Mex is Mexican food that is a regional variation of the foundational cuisine of this part of the world. You'll often hear Tejanos and Mexicans say things like the other side. The border doesn't exist for them. And what we know is Tex-Mex comes from the border area. So the food is the same on both sides of the river. 

Dan Pashman: It's like the old saying, "We didn't cross the border. The border crossed us."

Jose Ralat: Right. 

Dan Pashman: The tacos didn't cross the border to the border. The border crossed the tacos. 

Jose Ralat: Exactly. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: As you may know, until the mid-1800s, Texas was part of Mexico. In 1846, after years of American Presidents trying to buy Texas from Mexico, the U.S. declared war on Mexico. Two years later, the war ended and Mexico accepted the Rio Grande as the border between the two countries. Jose says this new border had a big impact on food in Texas.

Jose Ralat: That cut off the market and the commerce from Mexico. After that, you get the advent of processed foods and Mexican food is regional, you use what the market has available. 

Dan Pashman: The food along the border came to be known as Tex-Mex, but not everyone accepted it as its own cuisine. In 1972, the British food writer, Diana Kennedy, who is considered an English-language authority on Mexican food, called Tex-Mex blasphemy.   

Jose Ralat: And then you have Diana Kennedy, bless her heart. She's a great example of an expert not being open to new possibilities. What she did, caused near irreparable harm to the cuisine.  

Dan Pashman: Why was that so harmful for her to call Tex-Mex blasphemy? I understand why you may disagree that it's wrong. Why was it harmful?  

Jose Ralat: It degraded a people's food and people's identity. Texans and Mexican-Americans would eat the same stuff. And Mexican immigrants would often move upward in class by opening up Tex-Mex restaurants and adding little Mexican touches here and there. So to say that this food, which was a gateway to prosperity and to identity was just wrong, was harmful to a lot of people.  

Dan Pashman: As Jose sees it, yes, Mexican food and culture influence tacos in the U.S., but it’s not a one-way street. Tex-Mex isn’t a bastardization. The cuisines on both sides of the border have been in conversation with each other for generations. One example? A taco called La Gringa. 

Jose Ralat: That's a very Mexican taco. And one would not think so by looking at it. So the story goes that this American college student lived above a taqueria in Mexico City. And every morning, she would walk down and request al pastor with cheese on a flour tortilla.

Dan Pashman: Which is not a typical taco al pastor?

Jose Ralat: No. No, that was not on the menu. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Jose Ralat: That was the customized order.

Dan Pashman: Right. Right. It’s typically a corn tortilla, no cheese. 

Jose Ralat: Right. They acquiesced it. They said, sure. You know, here's a pretty American woman —I don't know if she was pretty. This is a myth. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Jose Ralat: This whole thing isn't verifiable. [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Right. But they did name the taco, La Gringa. 

Jose Ralat: Right. 

Dan Pashman: Which means, the white girl.

Jose Ralt: Yes. People caught on, liked this idea and the Taqueria Fogoncito, which exists to this day, put it on the menu. And it is one of the most popular Mexico City tacos there are. Cheese is everywhere down there and I think we shouldn't shy away from it. 

Dan Pashman: And you write in your book, "The addition of cheese to the iconic Taco Al Pastor erased the border between Americanized Mexican food and reverently guarded Mexican food."  

Jose Ralat: Yeah, probably a purist would be horrified. But I thought, "Oh, my God, this is amazing. This changes everything." 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: In his ongoing debate with the purists, Jose has coined a term, "The Abuelita Principle". 

Jose Ralat: A lot of people will tell me that's not a taco. My grandmother, my abuela, made real tacos. She made real Mexican food and everything else is not Mexican food. Well, what if your grandmother is a bad cook? You know? 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Jose Ralat: But put it simply, it is us trying to control this living cuisine and it undermines our understanding and enjoyment of this diverse food. Because to this day, Mexican food is innovating. And so you can't tell me that your grandmother made the definitive lengua, beef tongue, when there are centuries of different recipes and we have centuries to go. 

Dan Pashman: As I said, Jose’s family is Puerto Rican. He grew up in New York. So he’s neither Mexican-American, nor a Texan. He says he thinks that’s a positive, that it allows him to be more objective in these debates about authenticity. He doesn’t have a Mexican abuela or a hometown Texas taco to defend.

Dan Pashman: It's interesting, Jose, because ... I mean, look, generally speaking, I tend to agree with you that authenticity. Like, you know, you could find two people who live across the street from each other in the same town and make a dish very differently from each other. So which one is the authentic one? So I hear that. I am curious to unpack, why is it that people tend to get defensive about changes to their cuisine. And I wonder if it has something to do with, like, the more secure you feel in your place in the world, the more that you feel that your identity and culture are accepted, the easier maybe it is to play around and let other people play around and feel like it's not going to destroy the the the root of all of it. 

Jose Ralat: Americans have done a lot of harm to Mexican food. We can talk about Glen Bell jacking his recipe from this little joint across the street and then creating the brand Taco Bell, with this recipe that he stole. A lot of people considered these harmful acts. Identity in food are so intertwined in so many cultures, including Mexican culture. And so at some point, it becomes a coping mechanism to say that's not real because ...

Dan Pashman: Or that's not authentic. 

Jose Ralat: Yeah. But because we need to protect what's left. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Coming up, we explore some of the regional tacos of Texas when Jose takes us on a road trip.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): I would put up that barbacoa taco against any other analogous taco across the state.

Dan Pashman: Barbacoa, by the way, is meat cooked low and slow, outdoors. It’s thought to be the origin for the word "barbecue” in English. So before we head out, did you get to use the bathroom? Is your seatbelt on? Did you have a snack? Don't leave hungry because if you're not already craving tacos, you will be. Stick around.

MUSIC

 

+++ BREAK +++

 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. On last week’s show, I spoke with Minnesota legend Bea Ojakangas. Bea turned 90 this year. She grew up milking cows and churning butter on a family farm in rural Minnesota and began winning blue ribbons at the State Fair when she was 12. Bea always knew that she wanted to be a writer, but when she was in college in the '50s, women's only option were studying teaching or home economics. When Bea tried to sign up for creative writing courses, her department head was not happy.

CLIP (BEA OJAKANGAS): She sat me down, and she said, "You're not going to amount to anything," you know, I said, "Oh, huh? Is that right?" 

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): And what were you thinking when she said that to you? 

CLIP (BEA OJAKANGAS): I just thought, "She's just dumb."

[LAUGHING]

CLIP (BEA OJAKANGAS): I just sat back and I thought, "Oh no, you know, I'll teach her. I'll show her." [LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Bea did show her. She went on to publish dozens of cookbooks, and ended up inventing one of the most iconic snack foods in the American frozen food canon — one that is still incredibly popular to this day. This is a great episode, Bea has an incredible story. I really hope you check this one out. It's up now, wherever you got this on.

Dan Pashman: Okay, back to Jose Ralat, Taco Editor at Texas Monthly magazine. As I said, when Jose got the job, it made national news. And at times, the gig leaves Jose himself incredulous.

Jose Ralat: As I told the editor in chief once, "Who the hell hires a taco editor?" 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Well, they already had a barbecue editor. From that perspective like this felt overdue.  

Jose Ralat: It did. Because we eat tacos more than barbecue. 

Dan Pashman: Right. How could you have a barbecue editor for so long, a Texas Monthly and not have a taco editor? 

Jose Ralat: So I pitched this job for four years before they said okay. That's how much I fight for things. It is an immense amount of work. You roll into a town and I'm not going to speak badly of my colleague and friend, Daniel Vaught ...

Dan Pashman: Who is the barbecue editor at Texas Monthly. 

Jose Ralat: Yes, but when Daniel rolls into a town, there might be two or three barbecue joints. When I roll into town, there are 100 Mexican restaurants. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Jose Ralat: And because I'm ambitious and competitive by nature, I'm going to try to hit all of them in one day.  

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: When we first started talking about doing this show, my plan was to fly to Texas and tag along with Jose on one of his trips. I mean, he’s not the only person here who landed his dream gig. Okay? If I wrote up my own job description, it would definitely include the line, “Must be willing to fly halfway across the country for tacos.”  But, you know, back in 2020, COVID was raging. So, Jose agreed to record some audio for us while he was on the road. And this is not just fun and games, the stakes are high! Remember, Jose is putting together Texas Monthly’s Taco Issue for the first time as their Taco Editor. And this issue only comes out once every five years. His mission: Sum up the state of tacos in Texas, which is basically the size of France. It’s a huge task. 

Dan Pashman: By mid-September, Jose had already logged over 9,000 miles and eaten more than 1,300 tacos for this issue. But he still had a few more stops to make. So he left his home in Dallas and traveled three hours south to Austin for a week-long trip. He set up base camp at a hotel there, then took day trips to Houston, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, College Station, and the Hill Country. This week-long odyssey would be his last big trip for the Taco Issue. He was joined by his longtime friend John Daniel, who did the driving because of Jose’s epilepsy.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): Off we go. John, I'm so relieved to be on the road. I'm excited. I've got tons of spreadsheets, Post-it notes, and sticky tabs, and evaluation sheets. 

CLIP (SIRI): Watch out, object on road ahead.

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: On day one, Jose and John visit Cuantos Tacos, a little taco truck in Austin.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): We’re at Cuantos and they were ... They were closed yesterday, which was lengua Wednesday. So they're offering it tonight, as was their Brownsville Matamoros style tacos with the juicy bisteck, a wedge of avocado, beautifully diced onion and cilantro, and a healthy sprinkle of queso fresco ... 

Dan Pashman: Brownsville is one of the southern-most cities in Texas. It's right on the border, just three miles north of the Mexican city of Matamoros. It’s the heart of cattle country in South Texas and Northern Mexico. And the Brownsville Matamoros taco reflects that proximity to cows. 

Jose Ralat: It's a perfect example of this greasy, beefy, cheesy meal. This taco is relatively new from the '80s and is a rarity outside of the border area. 

Dan Pashman: As you heard, another specialty at Cuantos Tacos is the lengua.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): And the lengua tears like lengua and it, most importantly, looks like lengua. It looks like the cow's tongue. And it's just utterly delightful. I could eat a million of these. I think that one of the benefits is the way you slice it. That amount of surface area and the way it crisps, the way it bites, all that's part of the experience. 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): Really, the best one I've had in so long and just made with such care. I'm sorry, I'm talking with my mouth full but I have another bite. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): No, no. You speak with your mouth full. This is the only time that I'm gonna let you do that. 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): [LAUGHS] Let me?

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): You have cheese all over your face. 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): Oh, that's good. 

[LAUGHING] 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Cuantos Tacos is one of ten stops around Austin that day for Jose and John. On other days, they travel 80 miles south to hit spots in San Antonio, 165 miles east to scout out Houston joints, and they devote more days to the Austin area, where there’s a wide variety of taco styles, like at a bakery that makes tacos filled with rice.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): We are at Mi Tradicion, a panaderia that does Tacos de guisados. So it is organic blue corn, yellow rice that are battered and fried cheese filled poblano. It is wonderful. 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): It is wonderful.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Jose plans his trips very carefully. He spends weeks researching for a 3-day excursion. But once he’s on the road, he’s on the lookout for places that his research might have missed. He looks for signs that will tell him whether or not it’s worth stopping. Is there a crowd? Is there a regional dish on the menu? Are the tortillas handmade? He has a rule: Always take the long route — better to find overlooked places that way. So a trip from San Antonio to Dallas, that normally takes four hours, it once took Jose 12. And sometimes, being on the lookout for those out-of-the-way places pays off big. Like the time, back in March, right before COVID, when he stumbled on Manuel’s Crispy Tacos in Odessa, Texas.

Jose Ralat: As we drove by, I said, "Pull in! Pull in! Pull in!" 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Jose Ralat: And I made my family wait. Because my wife's vegetarian and my son's real picky ...

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Jose Ralat: So this place wasn't on the itinerary. It's got barely any internet presence. What I saw was a crumbling facade with rusty signage that might have been broken ...

Dan Pashman: So the place looked like it had seen better days. And it had been open since 1947, but Jose hadn’t heard of it. For a taco joint to be around that long and never make it onto Jose’s radar, not a great sign. 

Jose Ralat: It was 1:45, and they closed at 2:00. I said, "I'll be right back." I thought that they were gonna turn me away. I was one of only two people being served. There were, like, these little mini taco salad shells that you could wrap four forefingers around the outside and just eat it like a cup.

Dan Pashman: So the tortilla was fried into the shape of a small bowl. I'm imagining it like halfway between between the size of a taco salad bowl and a scoop chip. 

Jose Ralat: Yes, that's exactly ..  

Dan Pashman: Okay. I'm with you.

Jose Ralat: That's exactly it. 

Dan Pashman: I got it. All right. 

Jose Ralat: The lettuce wasn't cold. It wasn't watery. It was crispy. The tomatoes weren't drippy. The cheese was warm. Everything was at the right temperature and everything was at the optimal texture. I thought it was amazing. [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] I was blown away. It was just ground beef, cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, and this preformed fried shell. 

Dan Pashman: Outside of the shape of the taco being more of a bowl, it sounds like this is just a really good version of the kind of taco that sort of became a staple of middle America, you know, at some time in the last century, that you would have on taco night, buying the hard shells at the supermarket. The kind of thing that a lot of people are familiar with. 

Jose Ralat: Yes, crispy tacos are the true American taco. 

Dan Pashman: You wrote in your book, "The history of the crispy taco is the history of the taco in America." 

Jose Ralat: It was the entry point for everybody from Taco Bell to what used to be called cocktail tacos, that you would get from the freezer case. And the oldest printed recipes for tacos that we have in the U.S. all require frying. So crispy tacos are actually the oldest taco that we know of within the States, and I love that.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Back on the road with John, Jose stops for tacos that you could say are on the opposite end of the spectrum from crispy tacos. These are fancy tacos.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): So we’re at Resident, it's owned by Andrew Savoie, who is a classically trained chef who worked at Jean Georges.

Jose Ralat: What distinguishes Resident Taqueria owner from other anglo chefs trying to do tacos is that he did his homework. He respects the traditions and the flavor profiles, but understands there's a lot of room to play.

Dan Pashman: That means cauliflower and kale tacos, slow-cooked mushroom tacos, and one ingredient that Jose is less than thrilled about.

CLIP (SERVER): Have you guys had the ratatouille? 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): No. 

CLIP (SERVER): The fried eggplant is really good. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): I hate eggplant, is it .. 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): I love it.

CLIP (SERVER): It's one of my favorite tacos, right now.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): So, let’s get one of those. 

CLIP (SERVER): All right. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): I’ll try it. 

Dan Pashman: Now, I know what you're thinking. How much does this guy eat? Well, he does have a system for pacing himself. Jose says he never eats more than a few bites of each taco. And in order to combat palate fatigue, he hits Mexican ice cream shops. The fruit flavors help him reset his taste buds. Midway through this week-long trip, they drive 100 miles west to Kerrville, in Texas Hill Country, a part of the state famous for barbecue and barbacoa.

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): I would put up that barbacoa taco against any other analogous taco across the state.

CLIP (SIRI): Go straight. Only twenty minutes to 13th Street. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): Thank you, Siri.  

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: From there, they drive half an hour south, to cowboy country

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): We just drove over the Guadalupe River. And we’re on to a town called Bandera, the cowboy capital of Texas.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: For Jose no tour of Texas tacos would be complete without a stop at Valentina’s Tex-Mex Barbecue, a beloved food trailer in Austin. They kinda have the holy trinity: Tex-Mex, barbecue, and tacos. Jose says that at Valentina’s, that combination comes naturally.

Jose Ralat: The co-owner founder, Miguel Vidal, is from San Antonio. And when he opened this place, he didn't think he was doing anything abnormal. He said, "I was just cooking the way my family cooked when I was growing up. This is how we barbecued. We had the brisket. We had barbacoa. We had all of these elements. Plus, we had tortillas and salsa and queso fresco. That's just how you do it in South Texas." They have what I consider to be one of the quintessential Texas tacos. And it's the real deal, Holyfield. It is a flour tortilla and then you have brisket. You have a fried egg, refried beans, you have cheese, you have salsa. 

Dan Pashman: Oh, mercy. 

Jose Ralat: It's huge.

Dan Pashman: After picking up the food at Valentina’s, Jose and John return to their hotel to eat.

[UNPACKING FOOD]

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): I like the Real Deal Holyfield a lot. I forgot that you can get it chopped. I think it would be better. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): More surface area.

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): Yeah. It's really good though. Smoke rings great. Bark is great. It's rendered well. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): And the beans are doing what the beans should be doing, keeping everything together.

Dan Pashman: From the Real Deal Holyfield, Jose turns his attention to Valentina’s breakfast tacos. By the way, Jose says the breakfast taco originated in Mexico, took hold and developed in the Rio Grande Valley, then moved north to San Antonio. It’s not from Austin. Sorry, Austin. There’s no such thing as an Austin-style breakfast taco. Jose says that idea comes from coastal elites. Even though Valentina’s is in Austin, the owner, as you heard, is from San Antonio. Anyway, time to eat.

[UNPACKING FOOD]

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): The litmus test breakfast taco, the potato, egg, and cheese ... It might be a little too salty ... 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): Mmm. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): But it's still stellar. And the potatoes are fluffy.

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): Mmm. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): The cheese is not dry or rubbery. It's almost a little juicy. 

CLIP (JOHN DANIEL): Mm-hmm. 

CLIP (JOSE RALAT): Yeah, it's fantastic.   

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: By the end of Jose’s trip, he had traveled over a thousand miles, visited about 50 restaurants, and sampled 150 tacos. Not bad for a week’s work. In case you're keeping score, that means he tried an average of 21 tacos each day. A couple of weeks later, he turned in his story for the big Texas Monthly Taco issue.

Dan Pashman: What do you hope people will take from it, big picture, besides just which restaurants have good tacos? What do you hope that people will take away from this about tacos as a whole?

Jose Ralat: I'm not trying to blow their minds with any new information. I'm trying to show them what Texas tacos are like right here and right now. After this, hopefully, they will understand the breadth, the range of Texas tacos. 

Dan Pashman: And I gather that also part of what you want people to take away is to appreciate tacos as any other rich and varied food, that is worthy of thoughtful food criticism.

Jose Ralat: Yes. And I think they do, they just need to be reminded of it. That's part of my job, is to remind people of why it's important and how it's important and how it should be valued. And to remind people of their ultimate provenance. We just happen to live in a part of the world that was once Mexico. We are lucky. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: That’s Jose Ralat, taco editor of Texas Monthly magazine. Now we taped this episode with him back in 2020, when his book, American Tacos, first came out. But I have an exciting update. He just put out an expanded and revised edition of the book, you can get it wherever books are sold. Also, Jose is also on a book tour! He may be coming to a town near you. He's posting his events on his Instagram page, so make sure you follow him there at @TacoTrailOfficial. 

Dan Pashman: And Texas Monthly’s next Taco issue will be this November! They decided to do this one after only four years, because, I mean, Jose's doing so much great work. There's so much to say about tacos, you can't wait five years to update this information. The people need it! The people cry out for Jose's take on tacos. So look out for that issue of Texas Monthly online, start in mid-October at TexasMonthly.com.

Dan Pashman: A couple more quick updates, since we taped our episode, Manuel’s Crispy Tacos has permanently closed, and Valentina’s Tex-Mex Barbecue has temporarily closed. But all the other places mentioned in this episode are still open. And if you’re looking for some great tacos in Texas, and I strongly encourage you to go to the Texas Monthly website, follow Jose on Instagram, and just, if you're in Texas, just eat whenever he tells you to eat. Keep it simple, don't overthink it.

Dan Pashman: Next week on the show, the Pashman family is taking your calls! Janie and I help a couple through their mealtime disagreement. Then the kids will respond to your questions. Yes, Becky and Emily have hot takes for you. That’s next week. 

Dan Pashman: While you’re waiting for that one, check out last week’s episode with Bea Ojakangas, a living legend of Minnesota food, and the inventor of the iconic frozen pizza rolls. That’s up now.

Dan Pashman: And hey, did you know that you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era. Plus, live sports coverage! Does your podcasting have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It’s everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to SiriusXM.com/Sporkful.