Dan Pashman: Please note this episode contains discussions of body image and weight loss, including specific quantities of weight lost. It also includes some profanity.

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it’s not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show we obsess about food to learn more about people, and we're coming to you live from the London Podcast Festival!

Audience: [APPLAUSE]

Dan Pashman: My guest tonight is a comedian, actor, and co-host of the hit podcast Off Menu, along with fellow comic James Acaster. It's a food and comedy show where the guests describe their dream menu. He's also a judge on BBC One's Great British Menu, and last year he published his first book, Glutton: The Multi-Course Life of a Very Greedy Boy, an autobiography that details his lifelong obsession with food. He's currently touring the U.K., performing his stand-up special "Hot Diggity Dog". Please welcome London's own Ed Gamble.

Audience: [APPLAUSE]

Ed Gamble: Hello.

Dan Pashman: Hello Ed, welcome.

Ed Gamble: Thank you very much.

Dan Pashman: Thank you so much for being here.

Ed Gamble: It's a delight, look at this.

Dan Pashman: You know, when I started just sort of talking to people, just sort of sending out emails to, or notes to friends in the U.K. and said, "We're going to do a show in London, who should we have?", 99 percent of the responses were Ed Gamble. [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: Yes, the greediest man in London. Yeah, fair enough.

Dan Pashman: So we're going to take some time to have a nice chat about your phenomenal autobiography, your relationship with food over the years. But first, if it's okay, I would love to just start off with a lightning round.

Ed Gamble: Go for it.

Dan Pashman: All right. You're mostly opposed to sharing food in a restaurant. Why?

Ed Gamble: Because I think people need to stick, stick to their choices. They need to have a little bit — they need to have balls, quite frankly, and they need to be like, this is my choice and this is what I'm having.

Dan Pashman: You want people to be decisive.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I want people to be decisive and I don't want people looking at what I'm having and thinking, I should have chosen that, and then getting to have some of it. That is a jealousy they have to live with.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] But does that not ever happen to you?

Ed Gamble: Oh, all of the time. And I just — I live in it. I live in that feeling.

Dan Pashman: But if you shared, then you'd be alleviating that problem for yourself as well.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, but what if I really like it? And then you've got to do the — I’m looking at the plate, if I’m sharing, and I’m drawing on it in my mind. [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] I’m doing the diagram of the quadrants. And it's just ... It’s too stressful. Although now like every restaurant in London, they come up to you at the beginning and go, "Have you been here before?", And you go, "No, but I know what you're going to say ..." 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: They go, "Would you like to hear the concept of our restaurant?" It's like, it's not your concept. It's every fucking restaurant's concept. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: So I've had to learn how to share.

Dan Pashman: Okay. And how's that going?

Ed Gamble: It's all right now. 

Dan Pashman: Okay. [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: Because I check the menu online before I go. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: If I'm going, say, with my wife or our family or specific friends, I know the sort of things that they won't like, that'll put them off. That, I like the idea of. So then I'll go, "Oh we could order that," knowing that they'll go, "I don't really like the idea of that." I go, "Well, we'll just ... We'll get one for the table."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] I share your general irritation with these small plate concepts, which have also taken over a lot of American restaurants. That said, the one advantage is that if you try a little taste of something and it's really good, you can order a second plate of it.

Ed Gamble: Yeah. We have talked about this on Off Menu before, but like quite early on, cause me and James both had this revelation at the same time. That's when you really feel like a grownup. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: When you're sat in a restaurant and you go, "I like that. I want another one."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: But up until that point, I felt like I had the glare of some sort of like, faceless authority going like, "No, you've ordered now, you can't possibly order anymore," but you can just have more.

Dan Pashman: All right, we're gonna follow up on that. 

Ed Gamble: Okay. [LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: But let's continue with the lightning round. You say before you go on stage to perform, you watch MasterChef right up until a few seconds before going on. 

Ed Gamble: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: What is it about MasterChef that sets you in the right frame of mind for performance? 

Ed Gamble: I almost don't want to be in a frame of mind for performance. I don't want to be hyped up, ready to go because I'm quite loud and energetic anyway. So the idea of me pacing around getting prepared, I think everyone would be quite turned off by that cause I'd just [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] go up individually to everyone in the audience and scream at the top of my lungs in their face. So I'm just lying prostrate backstage with a laptop on my stomach just watching Masterchef. 

Dan Pashman: Got it. So you just want something that sort of turns your mind off for a brief period.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Got it. Your current standup show is called Hot Diggity Dog. Posters advertising the show on the tube were banned by London Transport. For our American audience, the tube is the subway. I'm doing English to English translations here. 

Ed Gamble: [LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: Posters advertising the show on the tube were banned by London Transport because the image of a hot dog violates the Transit Network's ban on junk food advertising. 

Ed Gamble: Hmm. 

Dan Pashman: Wow. So you replaced the hot dog in the image with a cucumber.

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Why a cucumber as opposed to another equally phallic fruit or vegetable?

Ed Gamble: [LAUGHING] It's just the healthiest thing I could think of. I was like, I want to go with these regulations. I want to kowtow to the man and let's go with the cucumber. But yeah, you know, I'm a bad boy. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: I got canceled by TFL. I'm sort of ... I’m sort of London's Joe Rogan.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] All right, so you survived the lightning round. Congratulations.

Ed Gamble: Thank you.

Dan Pashman: Let's take a breath and take a step back and talk about sort of — I was going to ask you what kind of eater you were as a child, but I would love to start off by asking you to pick up your autobiography, which we have here, and just on the inside jacket ... 

Ed Gamble: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: You have a couple photos. [ED GAMBLE LAUGHS] If you could just describe those photos to people who can't see them and then read the little mini-essay that looks like it was written by about a seven-year-old Ed. 

Ed Gamble: Yes, happy to. Well, it is just as many photos as I could find of me as a baby covered in food. There's me tucking into a burger. There's me tucking into another burger. It did — my mum sent me these photos. I was surprised quite how many burgers she let me eat as a child. So I do blame her for a lot of me. And this was — this was obviously an essay — or essay, it's three lines! 

[LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: This was a think piece I had to write after my summer holidays. A little diary, holiday diary, and this is me eating a burger, of course, and it said, “I liked food in Cyprus. I had burgers, taramasalata, moussaka, calamari, and pastitsio.” Um, and I was probably six. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: There's not many six-year-olds' diaries you'll find that'll feature pastitsio.

Dan Pashman: Right. But I think the point we're getting at is that even from a very young age, you really loved to eat.

Ed Gamble: Absolutely, yeah. And lots of food. Yeah, I think weirdly, and I still have this in my psyche, where I feel like I should eat everything and if anyone's like, "Ooh, I'm a little bit picky about that, I don't want to eat that," I take it as a challenge that I'm gonna be the guy that eats it and enjoys it ... 

Dan Pashman: Right.

Ed Gamble: To rub it in their face. It's a competition. Everything's a competition.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Was there anything you didn't like?

Ed Gamble: No, I think at some point in my childhood, I decided I would say I didn't like tomatoes because it felt weird that all the other kids were so fussy. But I really did like tomatoes, but I just — 

Dan Pashman: So it was just a pose. You actually pretended [Ed Gamble: Yeah.] to not like them only because you wanted to be accepted.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I was thinking maybe that's my thing. I don't like tomatoes. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: I'm the "don't like tomatoes" kid. But I was the kid who liked everything. Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Right. And you sort of talk about this in the book, but like, at what point did you realize that you were bigger than the other kids?

Ed Gamble: Well, I wish there was a story where I sat on a seesaw and another kid was catapulted into space. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: But I think you just generally get a sense of it. I mean, the weird thing is you don't really care as a kid necessarily until you realize that it's something that people can make fun of you for. And then rather than go into some, you know, massive spiral and go, "Oh God, I'm a fat kid. I need to lose weight. I need to stop eating all this food.", I did just think, "I'll just keep eating the food," and then again, make it part of my personality. Fun, fat kid.

Dan Pashman: And you sort of made a conscious choice ... 

Ed Gamble: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: To kind of create a persona.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I think so, because it's either that or stop eating so much food. And that was never an option, Dan.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] And what were some of the other elements of this persona?

Ed Gamble: Well, I mean as I got older it was like, dressing slightly more flamboyantly. I mean, I blame American high school films for quite a lot of it because there's always a funny fat kid wearing a Hawaiian Shirt.

Dan Pashman: Right, like Chunk in The Goonies comes to mind.

Ed Gamble: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a whole vibe, isn't it? You don't want to look like you're hiding your body or, you know, disguising it. So why not pop a fun shirt on? Maybe a slogan t-shirt.

Dan Pashman: Like what, what were some slogans?

Ed Gamble: Well, I had a hoodie that said "phat bastard". 

Audience: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: But it was fat with a "ph" guys, you understand? Cause not only was I large, I was hip-hop as hell.

Dan Pashman: Yeah, and it's interesting, like you write in the book, “This isn't going to be a sob story. I was in the main very happy. You don't need dignity at school, you just need friends.”

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Audience: [LAUGHTER]

Dan Pashman: Do you feel any differently about that period today as you look back on the things you did to be accepted as a fat kid?

Ed Gamble: No, I don't think so. I still maintain you don't need dignity at school. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: Absolutely not. You've just got to — you've got to make memories. You've got to make an impact at school and dignity has nothing to do with that. [LAUGHS] I went to university with someone who told me about a friend he had at school who used to go into the lunch hall and put baked beans directly into his pocket. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: And people are talking about that kid. He still remembers him. He made an impact. He's the baked-bean-in-the-pocket guy.

Dan Pashman: Yeah, that's a brand also. I'm not sure what ... [LAUGHING] I mean, I should say, I once actually was at a bachelor party in Chicago, or as you would say, stag party.

Ed Gamble: Very good.

Dan Pashman: And I knew that I was going to be drinking on and off throughout the entire day, and, you know, you gotta balance food and drink when you're drinking for that long. You don't want to drink too much on an empty stomach. And I went and got a whole pound of, like, sort of very fancy sliced ham from this nice sausage shop in Chicago and had it in a plastic zip-top bag and put that in my pocket. And I just nibbled on it throughout the entire day. Anytime I thought that my alcohol was getting ahead of my food, and I was getting too drunk too early ... 

Ed Gamble: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Throw a piece of ham out of the pocket right in the mouth.

Ed Gamble: I love that it's a fancy shop as well. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, right. [LAUGHS]

Ed Gamble: You've gone to a fancy shop ... 

Dan Pashman: I'm gonna eat good ham, Ed!

Ed Gamble: Yeah. Does that help with alcohol consumption though? Because I always thought the way to sort of slow the alcohol effect is carbohydrates.

Dan Pashman: I mean, any mass in your stomach [Ed Gamble: Yeah.] will slow absorption. 

Ed Gamble: Pack of ham in your pocket. 

Dan Pashman: But look, it was a great day. That being said, the pants were never the same.

Ed Gamble: [LAUGHING] Of course, they weren't. They stunk of ham! 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, yeah. 

Ed Gamble: Did you go to a nightclub later where they search?

Dan Pashman: I had dogs chasing me down the street.

[LAUGHING]

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: At age 13, you're diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. 

Ed Gamble: Correct.

Dan Pashman: How did they come to figure that out?

Ed Gamble: Well, I was really lucky with my diagnosis because I think a lot of people when they're diagnosed, it's around that sort of age a lot of people are first find out, but they find out by, you know, they pass out and they have to go to hospital and, you know, some people might go into a coma. But luckily my mom was a nurse for many, many years. So she spotted the early symptoms very early and took me to the doctor and got diagnosed like that. 

Dan Pashman: Hey, I’m jumping in here with a quick note for you about Type 1 diabetes. According to the CDC, “diet and lifestyle habits don't cause type 1 diabetes.” Instead, it mostly comes down to your genes and your age. There’s also no known prevention for Type 1 diabetes. The disease is managed with insulin injections as well as healthy eating and exercise. Okay, back to the show.

Dan Pashman: And you write about sort of at age 13, being diagnosed in the pediatric department.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, which is an odd — that’s an odd thing because when you're 13, you like to think, "You know, maybe I'm ready for the adult part of the hospital."

Audience: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: But the hospital says otherwise.

Dan Pashman: And so how did that feel?

Ed Gamble: Well, odd. I mean, it was ... it was a weird feeling. I mean, because to be diagnosed type 1 diabetic, you are told that you're going to have to manage this condition for the rest of your life pretty much. So you're going to have to be — you're taking all the agency. So to be then sat in a pediatrics ward where everyone's doing things for you and sort of, you know, mollycoddling you a bit is very odd. But you work out quickly as soon as you leave that you've just gotta ... You've gotta take the responsibility for yourself.

Dan Pashman: But did you work that out right away?

Ed Gamble: No. God, no. Well, I did work it out, but I just ignored it. Because it's also the weirdest time to be diagnosed with a condition like that because, you know, you wanna do everything your friends are doing and you want to let loose a little bit and I don't know many 13-year-olds who are thinking about the future of their health. I don't know many 20-year-olds are thinking about the future of their health. So I was injecting insulin to cover the carbohydrates I was eating. I was occasionally testing my blood glucose level. I was doing enough to stay alive, but my quality of life was certainly not as good as it is now, where I look after everything and constantly checking and doing all the admin. Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Once you had the diagnosis, did it affect your enjoyment of food?

Ed Gamble: I think so for a little bit. I mean, not when I got the diagnosis. I think I almost rebelled against it a little bit. And back then I enjoyed food, but I think what I enjoyed about food was quantity and, you know, the feeling it gave me rather than sort of exciting quality food, which I definitely enjoy more now. But I don't think the diagnosis had any impact on that. 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: So, fast forward to early adulthood. 

Ed Gamble: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: You're in your twenties. You start your career as a comic. What becomes of the funny fat guy persona that you cultivated in school?

Ed Gamble: Well, I mean, it certainly lasted throughout university, But, yeah, I started, when I was a comic, all of my jokes were pretty much about being overweight.

Dan Pashman: Is there a joke that comes to mind that represents that period in your work?

Ed Gamble: I had — so I had a joke because, obviously, I was doing jokes about being diabetic as well, which I still do a lot because, you know, that's my thing. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: You've got to find a thing when you're a comic. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: And if you're — there's a lot of people who are like me on the U.K. comedy circuit, straight white men, uh, who went to public school. So, if you've got a lifelong condition, you've really got to milk that for all it's worth.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: So I did I something along the lines of, you know, "I’m very fat, I’m also type 1 diabetic, so when I inject insulin in public, people think I'm trying to pop myself," which is like a solid opening line [Dan Pashman: Right.] in 2007. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: Yeah, so I did a lot of stuff about that because I think you do have to when you're a comic who's just starting and people don't know you and they're going to a mixed bill night and they don't know any of the comics on, you sort of do have to make a joke about your immediate impact on the audience and what they see, because otherwise they all sat there going, "Does he, does he know? Is he going to make a joke about this? I hope he does." So you get it out of the way early. But I would get it out of the way early and then do 20 more minutes.

Dan Pashman: Right. Looking back on it today, how do you feel about that early part of your career?

Ed Gamble: I mean, fine. I ... You know, I think you write about what you know. And you do what you can, right? When I lost weight, I was slightly grateful for it because I had run out of material. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: So then I moved into a phase of doing jokes about losing weight for the next two years.

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: But so at some point in your early 20s, you decide to more substantially change the way you're eating.

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Dan Pashman: Why did you make that decision?

Ed Gamble: I mean, I’d like to say it wasn't vanity, but I think that probably played a little role in it. Because I got booked to do a TV show, do some comedy on a TV show, and I thought, well, you know, if I'm going on TV, I've heard the camera adds 10 pounds. I can't afford that. 

Audience: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: Also, I was starting to come around to the idea that maybe I should be a little bit more careful maintaining my sort of type one health. So thought I'd give it a go.

Dan Pashman: And so what kind of changes did you make?

Ed Gamble: I mean, not eating all day every day was good. And just trying to do anything that felt like physical activity. It was just walking around and drinking more water and all the really boring stuff.

Dan Pashman: Did you perceive that people started to treat you differently?

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I think so. I mean, definitely there were people very surprised and it's all they'd want to talk about. And constantly — it's a really odd thing because if you are doing it deliberately and you are trying to lose weight, if you get that initial rush when someone says, "Oh my God, you look amazing. You're losing weight. This is incredible." And then your brain starts going, "Hang on, what were you thinking about me before [LAUGHS] I lost weight?" And people might not want you to comment on their body. So it's an odd thing because you get all puffed up because you're proud of something and people are complimenting you. But I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. I think throwing out compliments like that willy-nilly is dangerous. 

Dan Pashman: Why?

Ed Gamble: Because you don't know why someone's lost weight. If you go, "You look amazing. How come you've lost weight? It's incredible." Someone might go, "Yes, I'm grieving." It's ... There's always that danger, right? I think it's better just to take people as they are. And if they bring up that information, say, "I've been trying to lose weight." You go, "Well, fantastic. It's going really well."

Audience: [APPLAUSE]

Dan Pashman: And I do want to ask because I just think that it helps people to understand and sometimes people who have a history of disordered eating can be triggered by discussions of quantities of weight lost. 

Ed Gamble: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: But like, you've talked about it on stage, and I do just think it's important because it just gives people an idea, like, roughly how much weight did you lose?

Ed Gamble: Yeah, sure, so I lost about seven stone.

Dan Pashman: Seven stone. I believe a stone is 14 pounds.

Ed Gamble: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: Do I remember that correctly? 

Ed Gamble: I used to say — when I did gigs in the States, I used to say 86 pounds.

Dan Pashman: Okay.

Ed Gamble: And they'd go wild. 

Audience: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: They would lose their mind!

Dan Pashman: Was the reaction to you talking about weight loss different in the U.S. versus the U.K.?

Ed Gamble: Fully. 

Dan Pashman: How so?

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I had material about that that I used to do in the States. Because it's an instant applause break in the U.S. And you say I've lost 86 pounds, they can't believe it. They're basically stripping their clothes off and running around.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: Ahhh! I mean, I did — this is 2015 this was, I did a stand-up set on Conan and the whole bit was basically me saying I've lost 86 pounds, and there was like — it's only a five-minute set and two minutes was applause. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: And then me talking about the difference between the U.K. reaction and — which is essentially, you can see in their eyes, most audiences were going, "I bet you were funnier when you were fat."

Audience: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: U.K. audiences do not go to comedy for a good time. They do not ... They do not meet you halfway. In the U.S., the audiences, from what I experienced, turn up going, "We're going to comedy. I can't wait to laugh!" 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: U.K. audiences turn up and they go, "Go on then. Make me laugh."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Audience: [APPLAUSE]

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Coming up, Ed and I talk about what it’s like being a judge on BBC’s Great British Menu, especially when he has to balance his diabetes with the need to judge eight different cakes in a day of shooting. Plus, I ask him the question we’ve all been waiting for: Poppadoms or bread? Stick around.

MUSIC

 

+++BREAK+++

 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. Last week on the show, we celebrate National Pasta Month. You’re celebrating, right? We’re celebrating. We got some updates on my pasta shape, cascatelli, and on my cookbook Anything’s Pastable. I tell the story of how cascatelli ended up in a design museum in Germany. As it turns out, the museum’s story, which I didn’t know going in, made cascatelli’s inclusion there just so much more meaningful and powerful. Listen to the episode to find out why.

Dan Pashman: Then later in that one, I talk with my friends Andrea Nguyen and Andrew Janjigian, who each contributed a very special recipe to my cookbook. Andrea tells me how her recipe for Mapo Tofu Cascatelli evolved from an earlier version that used spaghetti.

CLIP (ANDREA NGUYEN): I just like went to spaghetti because it's so accessible to people. But for years I hated that pile of sauce that would always be on my plate afterwards.

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): You and me both, Andrea.

CLIP (ANDREA NGUYEN): I know that now.

Dan Pashman: That episode’s up now, check it out wherever you got this one.

Dan Pashman: Okay, back to my conversation with comedian Ed Gamble, recorded live at the London Podcast Festival. Before the break, we heard from Ed about how people treated him differently after he lost a lot of weight. But I asked him if his feelings about himself also changed after that weight loss. 

Ed Gamble: Definitely. I mean, I'd almost say that when I was bigger, I didn't necessarily have any issues with my body. I was like, well, this is just me. I like to eat and this is my size and this is what I've got. Whereas when I lost a lot of weight, that's probably the first time I started noticing changes in my body and being like, oh, I'm putting weight back on, or I'm slightly worried about that. That's when some body image issues start coming to the surface, I think.

Dan Pashman: Is there, like, a specific moment that comes to mind about when you were dealing with that?

Ed Gamble: Yeah, there is. I was doing — it was a photoshoot. You have to do, like, a fair amount of photo shoots when you're a comic if you’re going to the Edinburgh Fringe every year. And I had a photo shoot where I'd lost a lot of the weight and I was absolutely delighted with it. And then looking at the photos and going, "Well, I could leave a bit more weight from there." That's not necessarily, you know, that's not what I think I look like in the mirror or is that really what people are seeing? And it gets in your head, that sort of stuff. 

Ed Gamble: I think it takes a while to be like, oh, this is a reaction rather than a reality. And now, I still have that reaction sometimes, but I’m — I can sort of hover outside my own body and go, "No, you've had this before, and tomorrow morning you'll go and work out, you'll have some sort of green juice, and then you'll feel like a superhero." And you'll look in the mirror and you'll go, "God, you're amazing."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: And it would be really nice to find a midpoint between those two things.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: Some sort of compromise where I just go, "I'm fine, let's get on with it."

Dan Pashman: Right. I should have said this earlier, but I was also a fat kid. In fact, the photos in your book remind me of a photo that my parents have of me when I was probably three? I'm in my pajamas and I had broken into the refrigerator. 

Ed Gamble: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: They found me on the floor with the door of the refrigerator open and this big foil package opened before me on the floor, and I have a gigantic turkey leg in my hand. 

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: So I think you and I are kindred spirits, Ed.

Ed Gamble: Absolutely. What is it about former fat kids starting food podcasts?

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] You gotta get your jones somehow.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, exactly. If we're not talking, we'll be eating, so ...

Dan Pashman: Yeah. But this is something that you said that resonated with me. You say your body may be different, but you still always feel uncomfortable in the company of the thin.

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Dan Pashman: You write, “Thinness is a state of mind that I do not have. Thinness is being at a party and not spending all night by the snacks. Thinness is sharing dishes at restaurants with other thinnies. Thinness is vodka soda.”

Ed Gamble: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Which I love, because who orders a vodka soda?

Ed Gamble: People without joy in their lives.

Dan Pashman: Yes. 

Audience: [LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: No one for the taste, that’s for sure. Why do you think you feel this way around thin people?

Ed Gamble: Well, it is a completely different state of mind. I mean, I know a lot of people like this, who food is just not on their radar as something to think about. And we think about food all of the time. If you're eating breakfast, you're thinking about what lunch is going to be. You're thinking about a restaurant that you might like to go to. I'm looking at menus online of restaurants that I have no plans to go to. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: Restaurants on the other side of the world that I have no flights booked. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: But I've seen an article about this restaurant, so I just read the menu like a novel. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: But there are people who aren't like that. There's the food as pill people, who say, "Oh, if, if food was a pill, I'd just take that pill."

Dan Pashman: The worst.

Ed Gamble: The worst.

Dan Pashman: I think thankfully it's fallen by the wayside, but there was a period when there was some company that was trying to market this drink that was like a meal replacement drink, and they actually named it Soylent. 

Ed Gamble: Oh, my god.

Dan Pashman: As in, Soylent Green. You may know the old sci-fi film where it turns out there's a food shortage and it turns out they're making the food out of people. And they're marketing it, they call it Soylent Green. And it was very much like, you know, if you're at your computer all day programming apps, you can't waste time eating!

Ed Gamble: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: That's — you're not maxing out your productivity. Drink this Soylent.

Ed Gamble: It's so sad. I'm not sure you have this in the States, but Huel is one of the saddest liquids on the planet.

Dan Pashman: Is that, like, a plant fuel?

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so it's like — it's a meal replacement, Huel. And it's a liquid. And I think Huel is people, as well. 

[LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: Allegedly.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING]

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Dan Pashman: So, when you first got into comedy, you sort of held on to this sort of funny fat guy persona, your weight was part of your comedy. When you lost weight, transitioned your comedy brand, and began talking more about diabetes.

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Dan Pashman: Your first stand-up special in 2018 was actually called Blood Sugar.

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Dan Pashman: What sort of reactions did you get when you first started making diabetes more part of your comedy?

Ed Gamble: Well, I mean, there's a big routine about this, about me and three other comedians. We went to New York for New Year's Eve and then there was a huge snowstorm and we were stranded in New York, essentially, for an extra three or four days. And it was a very slow news week, and we'd put it on social media that this had happened. And it was picked up by multiple news outlets. There was an interview on Sky News. [LAUGHS] There was a BBC News article in particular, a BBC News article where I was referred to as "diabetic comedian, Ed Gamble".

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: And when something like that happens and you're writing a new tour show, you grab it with both hands. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: So that was my brand now, apparently. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Ed Gamble: As I am now defined as "diabetic comedian, Ed Gamble". And rather than hold back on the diabetic material, that made me write a new sort of 25 minutes about it.

Dan Pashman: Right. And so, you know, I was interested to read this part of your book because, obviously, I think a lot of people know someone, if they're not themselves diabetic, they know someone who's diabetic. And we have, like, a rough understanding, but I don't think that I fully appreciated the finer points of the management of diabetes. So like, just like, walk me through all the factors you have to take into account before you eat something.

Ed Gamble: Yeah, I mean, so before I eat something, I will try and estimate the grams of carbs within that meal because that will relate to how much insulin I inject, because I'm trying to stop the spike in the blood glucose levels that the carbs — I'm essentially doing the job of my pancreas. I do eat carbs and I do eat sweet things because I can, but sometimes if I don't want the hassle of having to do those calculations and be checking two hours later to make sure I've got it right and injecting more insulin or having something sweet to bring them back up, I just don't bother with it. And luckily, as we've already established, what I really like is fat. So I can eat quite low carbs some days, and I'm absolutely delighted with that. I love meat. I love fish. I love cheese. I love all of that stuff. So, you can eat in a low-carb way — and vegetables, sure. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: [LAUGHING] Genuinely forgot vegetables. Yeah, greens and all that, they're good.

Dan Pashman: Yeah. 

Ed Gamble: You can eat in a low-carb way and have a very satisfactory and delicious diet, I think. But then, sometimes you just want chips, and I'll deal with that as and when it comes up.

Dan Pashman: But despite all this, you also say that one of the prevailing myths about diabetes is that you can't eat what you want.

Ed Gamble: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people might still think that, to be honest. I had a lot of people, I mean they know not to say it to me now, going like, "Oh can you eat that?" There's, you know, people tiptoeing around you a little bit and going, "Oh god, I've made dessert. You can't have that, can you?" I go, "Yeah, give me all of it."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Ed Gamble: I'm gonna prove a point. It's gonna be a lot of hassle for me and I might not feel very well tomorrow because of it, but I'm gonna eat this entire bowl of tiramisu, you're not allowed any ... 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: To prove a point. No, I can. I just need to be ... I just need to be careful. I need to think about how I'm gonna deal with it. And, you know, sugar is not banned in my life. In fact, sometimes I need sugar more than normal people because it's genuinely helpful.

Dan Pashman: Right, you're saying that like, when you inject insulin it kind of, like, builds exponentially. Like if you eat a lot of sweets, [Ed Gamble: Mm-hmm.] you might actually have to inject more insulin after having eaten a lot of sweets?

Ed Gamble: Yeah, well so I do a show called Great British Menu and the final day of the final week is all of the finalists chefs cook their dessert. And my day is eating eight desserts. These are very sweet desserts a lot of the time. They're incredible, but I've learnt now just have a taste, because I've had it before in the previous rounds, have a little taste, but then I need to inject for that. Then half an hour later, another one's coming, so I'm having some of that and I'm injecting for that. But then suddenly, all of the insulin kicks in at once and it plummets. So they've seen me at Great British Menu eat eight desserts in a day and then having to sit there and eat a bag of Haribo. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: And people don't really understand that. They're like, "Why are you eating more sugar? I thought you were diabetic." It's like, "Well, it all stacks on top of each other. Just ... Just leave me alone."

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: How have you found the role of being a judge on a cooking competition show?

Ed Gamble: I mean, I think it's another stubborn thing where people are like, "How do you handle that with diabetes?" And I'm like, well, I can, and I do, and I'm going to put it on television. I love it. I mean, they're incredible chefs on this show. And part of it is attaching it to a theme for the banquet that year, so the presentation’s always amazing. You start eating at 9:30 in the morning through to about half five in the afternoon. There's a dish every half an hour. They bring you the food. I mean, it is honestly my dream job. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: It is incredible. And there's two other chefs on the judging panel, so they cover all the wanky stuff. They ... And I, basically, just get to sit there and go, "Yes, delicious, another please." It's really, really fun.

Dan Pashman: Do you struggle to give negative feedback?

Ed Gamble: Not so much in the — so we just started filming, actually, the fourth season that I’ve done, so we started filming yesterday. I think I find it easier to give negative feedback now because I know what we are looking for and I'm less overawed by the whole situation, and I know what we’ve had before. So, I do give negative feedback, but it comes from my perspective rather than the chef's perspective. 

Ed Gamble: So I, there was a dish yesterday that I enjoyed very much, and my negative feedback was, "We need some more of this." 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: Because I don't like it when they bring it and there's just one little square of meat on there. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Ed Gamble: Because they're trying to make it look fancy, but I don't care if it looks too — you can make it look fancy and bring a whole leg.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: I’ve done a couple of, like, one-off judging stints on food TV things in the U.S, and I always — cause I’m not a trained chef, I'm really more like an audio guy who stumbled into food, and I struggle to feel like I have a right to my opinion.

Ed Gamble: Mm-hmm. I totally get that. But the way I think about it, especially with that show, is we're picking dishes and chefs to go through to a big banquet where loads of other people are going to come and eat the food and none of them are chefs. So I see my role as a food enthusiast, who is representing people who aren't necessarily chefs and just wants delicious food. 

Dan Pashman: Do you ever really disagree with the judgments of the chef judges on the show?

Ed Gamble: Sometimes, and I've learned to stick up for myself a little bit more now. Tom Kerridge, who's, like, the head judge, basically. He's an absolutely amazing chef, wonderful man. But I've noticed what he'll do now is he’ll — we'll all sort of silently taste the dish, and he'll now go, "What do you think, Ed?" I’ll go, "Oh no, that means I can't just copy him."

[LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: And I'm a bit braver now at just tossing out my opinion straight away, and you know, he might agree, he might disagree, but I don't care if he disagrees, because it's all taste, isn't it?

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Dan Pashman: Looking back to the time that you made these substantial changes in how you ate to today, how would you say your relationship with food has changed?

Ed Gamble: Well, that's a really interesting one because I think I only truly got obsessed and fascinated with food and restaurants and cooking and flavors and all of that good stuff after I lost weight because I think when I was bigger I was just eating for eating's sake. I enjoyed large amounts of food and I didn't really mind about the quality of it. And I sort of made a promise to myself when I lost a bit of weight that I wasn't going to stop eating all that stuff I liked, but I was just going to find the best version of it where love had been put into it and the person who'd made it is dedicated to creating this wonderful thing. So I just got way more obsessed with food and way more into it after I lost weight and that's still how I am to this day, really.

Dan Pashman: All right, Ed, final question.

Ed Gamble: Go on.

Dan Pashman: On Off Menu, your co-host, James Acaster, asks every guest: Poppadoms or bread? 

Ed Gamble: Yes.

Dan Pashman: Poppadoms, of course, well known here. Perhaps a little less well known in America, but they’re a crispy Indian snack. 

Ed Gamble: As we found out with every single American guest we've ever had on the show.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING] 

Audience: [LAUGHTER]

Dan Pashman: You needed an English to English dictionary! 

Ed Gamble: Yeah, but he screams it as well, so he doesn't make it easy for them.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING] So, what's your take? Where do you stand?

Ed Gamble: Well, I disagree with the question, still. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: We never agreed on it as a format point, he just shouted it in the first episode we did. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

Ed Gamble: He says they're both things you'd be given at the beginning of the meal without asking for them. But poppadoms would only happen in a very specific sort of British Indian restaurant. Whereas bread happens, you know, with many nations' cuisines, bread gets brought to you. So it's not really a choice that you're ever offered. There's never poppadoms or bread in an Indian restaurant either. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Ed Gamble: So it doesn't make any sense. But my answer is bread, because —

[LAUGHING]

Audience: Yeah.

Ed Gamble: Yeah!

Dan Pashman: Someone in the crowd was just like, "Yeah."

Ed Gamble: Poppadoms are obviously delicious, and I do like them when I'm having an Indian meal in a British Indian restaurant. They are fantastic, and it's part of the ritual, and I love it. But in every single other restaurant in the world, I'm choosing bread.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Ed Gamble: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: All right, well, Ed Gamble is the co-host of the excellent and hilarious podcast Off Menu. His book is Glutton: The Multi-Course Life of a Very Greedy Boy. And he's currently on a standup tour in the U.K. You can get info on all of that at edgamble.co.uk. Big hand for Ed Gamble!

Audience: [APPLAUSE]

Ed Gamble: Thanks, guys.

Dan Pashman: And a big hand for all of you! Thank you all so much for coming out to The Sporkful Live in London! Good night!

Audience: [APPLAUSE]

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Dan Pashman: Next week on the show, we’re taking a deeper look at the groundbreaking documentary Super Size Me, 20 years after it came out. Its director Morgan Spurlock died earlier this year. We talk with his ex-wife and others who knew him, and grapple with the film’s legacy. That’s next week.

Dan Pashman: While you’re waiting for that one, check out last week’s National Pasta Month spectacular, which includes my visit to a design museum in Germany doing an exhibition about pasta shapes.

Dan Pashman: And hey, did you know that you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? Then there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to SiriusXM.com/sporkful. 

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