Dan Pashman: This episode contains explicit language and adult subject matter and some of it starts right here at the very beginning. So I’m just gonna pause, OK? If you're a parent in the car and your kid's in the back seat, maybe this came on auto play and now you're fumbling. Don't get in an accident. It's OK. I'm giving you a second. This one's probably not family friendly. Sorry kids, OK? This one's for grown ups. All right? Everyone OK? You got it? All right, here we go. 

Dan Pashman: I recently went to Red Lobster, which I know is one of your favs. 

Nicole Byer: I fucking love Red Lobster! Red Lobster and Chili's and Applebees are my favorite chain restaurants. 

Dan Pashman: This is comedian Nicole Byer, she hosts the absurd cooking competition show, Nailed It and she is passionate about her chain restaurants. 

Dan Pashman: As I understand it, you've gone through a tough time with some of these chains though. And I really feel for you because you love the Cajun Chicken Linguini at Red Lobster, right? But they changed the recipe on you. 

Nicole Byer: They did. There's something off about it now and I can't put my little fingy on it. 

Dan Pashman: And then you were a big fan of the Chicken Caesar Pita at Chili's, I read. 

Nicole Byer: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: And they took it off the menu. 

Nicole Byer: And they got rid of it. And I was — 

Dan Pashman: What was so special about that? 

Nicole Byer: I guess, I just like salad wraps. I like salad that I can hold. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Nicole Byer: So...[LAUGHS] and the dressing was good. And so it's like you can pretend that you're eating healthy and you're definitely not. 

Dan Pashman: Right, right. 

Nicole Byer: And then Applebee's got rid of their Apple Chimi Cheesecake and I'm really hoping if I talk about it enough they'll bring it back.

Dan Pashman: There's a lot of things...

Nicole Byer: Have you ever had it? 

Dan Pashman: I have not but heard tell of it. Describe for people who don't know it. 

Nicole Byer: OK. An Apple Chimi Cheesecake from Applebee's is cheesecake put in a sugar tortilla and then it's deep fried to perfection. And they put it on the plate and then they put a scoop of vanilla ice cream it. I'm like beaming talking about this. 

[LAUGHING] 

Nicole Byer: Like this is the fattest I've ever felt, where I'm like literally squealing about this desert. But it's so good. It's light, flaky — the cheesecake is just warm enough that it's gooey and so good. 

Dan Pashman: It sounds — do you need a minute here, Nicole? It sounds like you're getting a little emotional. 

Nicole Byer: Imagine if I started crying? And I was like, I just the Apple Chimi Cheesecake! 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it’s not for foodies. It’s for eaters, I’m Dan Pashman. Each week on our show we obsess about food to learn more about people. As I said, Nicole Byer hosts Nailed It. It's a cooking competition show where the contestants basically have no idea how to cook. They're clueless. And the show is hilarious and a big hit for Netflix. In 2020, Nicole was nominated for an Emmy in the Outstanding Host category, the first Black woman to be nominated in that category. She and I will talk about Nailed It later on. 

Dan Pashman: But Nicole’s early career, doing stand-up and acting – it was very different from her role on Nailed It, which is a kid-friendly show. Like, my kids and I, we love to watch it together. But in Nicole's other work, she’s long been known for being raunchy and honest. 

CLIP (AUDIENCE): [LAUGHING]

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): I'm take my burger, I'm walking to leave JFK and I was, "Oh, I gotta pee." So I go to the bathroom, I start peeing. Let's get real, I'm taking a shit. 

CLIP (AUDIENCE): [LAUGHING]

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Planes are tight. You can't shit on a plane. So I'm taking a shit and I smell my burger and I'm like, "Ohh, it smells so good." So I start eating the burger, while I'm taking a shit…

Dan Pashman: On the MTV show, Girl Code, Nicole got her first bikini wax on camera: 

[CLIP FROM GIRL CODE]

CLIP (SPECIALIST): Hold your knees. I'm gonna your butt. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Oh no. 

CLIP (SPECIALIST): I have to put a little powder before. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Oh yeah, get the powder in there... Oh! Oww! My Butt. 

Dan Pashman: When she was with the sketch comedy Upright Citizens Brigade, she did this classic sketch, where she goes for an acting audition and the casting director keep asking her to act Blacker.

CLIP (DIRECTOR 1): Where are the clams I asked for?

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Oh! Child, I got them clams. I got everything on that list you gave me. 

CLIP (DIRECTOR 2): Blacker. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Clams make the party! Haha!

CLIP (DIRECTOR 2): Spike Lee. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Ohh, the clams. Ohh yeah...

Dan Pashman: Nicole joined me from L.A. When we started talking, I told her that I especially loved her show Loosely Exactly Nicole. It ran for two seasons a few years back, first on MTV, then on Facebook. It’s a comedy based on her life. There’s this one episode called “Dead Mom Chicken Day.” Nicole’s mom passed away when Nicole was in high school. That is true. That really happened, but it also factors into the episode’s story line, when Nicole tries to go out for fried chicken and her go-to spot is closed…

 [“DEAD MOM CHICKEN DAY” CLIP]

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This can't be right. Oh, God! Look, um, my mom died when I was 16 and I come here every year on her birthday because their chicken tastes just like hers. And it's closed and now I don't know where to go. 

Dan Pashman: Do you actually commemorate your mom's birthday in some way?

Nicole Byer: I haven't done it in a while. I used to make a funfetti cake with rainbow chip icing for my mom's birthday. Like, to just make her a birthday cake. And they're like, is that your mom's favorite cake? And I was like, no, it's my favorite cake because I'm the one who's gonna eat it. A dead lady can't eat. So I — yeah, I used to do that. And I used to make a dead mom Mother's Day cake and then I don't know. I moved out to L.A. and I kind of — nope. I did it when I was in L.A. I don't know when I stopped doing it. Maybe two years ago?

Dan Pashman: Did doing that on your mom's birthday or on Mother's Day make you feel better?

Nicole Byer: No, of course no. My mom's dead. Cake's not gonna make you feel better. Uh-oh, did I...

Dan Pashman: No, no...

[LAUGHING]

Nicole Byer: I was like, I broke you! 

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: But in that episode of "Dead Mom Chicken Day", you said that you were going to the specific chicken restaurant because they were the restaurant that made chicken most like your mom's. 

Nicole Byer: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: Do you have a place like that in real life

Nicole Byer: No. Nobody make food like my mom. It's kind of hard, like not even — nobody in my family even makes food the way she did. She was this woman, who just like — if she met you for the first time would give you would give you the biggest hug and she made you feel like she knew you your whole life. And I think she just made food with love. The only time I make good macaroni and cheese is if I'm like excited to make it. And I can make very good mac and cheese but if I'm like, Ugh, I got to make to make this mac and cheese, it won't be good. And I think it's cause I'm not making it with love. 

Dan Pashman: Do you have specific memories of cooking with your mom?

Nicole Byer: Yeah. We would make pancakes together until we could do it ourselves and then she'd be like, "You do it.", but I learned that I love a deep fried pancake. You put a little too much oil in the pan, tilt the pan, submerge the pancake in there and you fucking deep fry that bitch and it's so fucking good. 

[LAUGHING]

Nicole Byer: Um, what else? We would make — my mom — Oh! I can't find the recipe anywhere that seems close to it but my mom would make these cream cheese sugar cookies. 

Dan Pashman: Wow. 

Nicole Byer: And they were so fucking good. Ugh, I loved them. And we would like roll them into shapes and shit and they would expand in the oven and you wouldn't know what you made. But we always tee hee'd and chuckled about it. 

Dan Pashman: What's the dish that's missing from your family — your big family table because your mom isn't there? 

Nicole Byer: I don't know, it's like everything's missing cause my mom — like, I don't know any other family who used to do like a big old Easter dinner but she loved having a big Easter dinner, where she would make everything and then serve it everybody. Like, she would just be in the kitchen all day and that's just like a nice memory. 

Dan Pashman: What do you do on Easter now?

Nicole Byer: Nothing. My aunt did once try to send me an Easter dinner through the mail. 

Dan Pashman: Just like in an envelope?

Nicole Byer: No, in a box. It was — I was living in New York and I hadn't been to Chicago to visit my family in a while because I was fucking poor. And she was like, "I'm gonna do something nice for you. I'm gonna send you a little something for Easter." And I was like, "OK, cool." So I get this like pink slip in the mail and I was like, "Oh, I'll get it tomorrow." And then the weekend happened and then it was like, Monday. And I was like, ohh, I think I got to go get it. So I go to the post office on like 1/25th and I give them the slip. And this lady behind the counter, she's like, "Oh my gosh! She's here! She's here! Brenda, she's here!" And I was like, oh, my God, why are she and Brenda so excited? And they were like, "It's her!" And then other people came out of the back and I didn't know what was happening. And then they were like, "Here's your box!" And it was dripping wet. 

Dan Pashman: Oh, no! [LAUGHS] 

Nicole Byer: And it stunk. And I was like, "Oh, my God! What is in here?" And they all watched me open it and my aunt had sent me some cooked things, some raw things — like there just a raw bag of bacon. Then there was like corn bread mix. And then, I think slices of ham in a zip loc bag, macaroni and cheese in a zip loc bag and it had ben sitting on a truck, because she didn't overnight it. And then it sat at the post office for days. And then my aunt had called me and I finally called her back. And she was like, "Did you get your dinner?" And I was like, "I did." She's like, "Did you eat it?" And I didn't have the heart to tell her, "No, no, auntie. It is rotten." But it was very — I don't think I had someone, except for teens, laugh at me as hard as those two woman laughed at me. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: Nicole’s Aunt sent her that care package because she thought Nicole needed a taste of home on Easter, especially since Nicole’s mom isn’t around anymore. But that gesture didn’t exactly pan out. Fortunately, some of the other foods Nicole grew up with are easier to replicate. 

Nicole Byer: My mom used to make these ravioli things, not from scratch, just out of a bag. And they were really good and I remember what brand it is. But I know they're from Costco. Have you ever been to Costco? 

Dan Pashman: Oh, yeah. Sure, sure. Although it has less — I get less joy from it since — well, I married my wife, Janie, which overall has been a net positive in my life but as part of the deal, I agreed to stop cooking pork in our house because she grew up Kosher. 

Nicole Byer: Ohh. 

Dan Pashman: And one of my favorite things to get at Costco used to be the pork chops. 

Nicole Byer: Aww. 

Dan Pashman: So now, it's lost a bit of its luster for me. 

Nicole Byer: Wait, why is pork is not — is it because pigs are dirty? They roll around in the dirt?

Dan Pashman: Eh, I think that's — I mean...[SIGHS]. The scholars probably disagree but basically.

Nicole Byer: Hmm. 

Dan Pashman: Yes, you know, pork and shell fish cannot every be Kosher. 

Nicole Byer: What about shrimp? Shrimp doesn't really have like — it's not shellfish. 

Dan Pashman: It technically is. If you by it before it's been shelled then it's shell fish. 

Nicole Byer: Oh, wait. Shrimps come in a shell?

Dan Pashman: Yes. They're whole body is encased in a shell. 

Nicole Byer: Woah. No way!

Dan Pashman: I mean, it's not a hard shell like clam or an oyster. Google a picture right now of a whole shrimp. 

Nicole Byer: [LAUGHS] OK, whole ass shrimp is what I'm googling. 

Dan Pashman: It's got little tiny, little tiny black eyes. You can eat the head. 

Nicole Byer: Wait, shrimps have eyes? 

[LAUGHING]

Nicole Byer: I've never seen a shrimp, I guess.  Wait, images. Um...ahhh! These are wild! That's what a shrimp looks like? 

[LAUGHING] 

Nicole Byer: Eww. I don't know if I can eat shrimp any more. Who thought to get into that?

Dan Pashman: Yeah. [LAUGHS]

Nicole Byer: Who caught these nasty little nuggets and was like, "There must be meat inside." 

Dan Pashman: Yup, that's a shrimp, Nicole. Then you see how it's got a shell on the outside? 

Nicole Byer: Yeah, I guess it is a shell. 

Dan Pashman: Not kosher. 

Nicole Byer: Not kosher. Lobster, That's definitely a shellfish.

Dan Pashman: That's right. Yeah. Have you seen a whole lobster before? Uh, duh. I've seen The Little Mermaid. Come on, now. 

Dan Pashman: OK. Right. Sorry, yes. Yes. 

Nicole Byer: Wait, is Sebastian a lobster or a crab? 

Dan Pashman: I'm pretty sure a lobster but now that we need to check that. 

Nicole Byer: OK, I got to Google that. OK. Sebastian. Oh. So yeah, Sebastian is a fucking crab. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, if that's a crab, you know, then Disney people need to reevaluate because that looks like a lobster to me. Those claws...

Nicole Byer: It does look like a lobster. 

Dan Pashman: Crabs are like wide and squat and they move sideways. 

Nicole Byer: He does move sideways. 

Dan Pashman: Does he?

Nicole Byer: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: Well, that's a dead giveaway. He's a crab. Wikipedia's right.

Nicole Byer: I'm glad we got to the root of that. 

Dan Pashman: We made a lot of progress here, Nicole.

Nicole Byer: [LAUGHS] The Little Mermaid is a flawless movie because I think at the heart of it is the story is a young woman who wants to look like everybody else and then a fancy witch, that having a voice is more important than looking like everybody else. And then that wise fat woman dies and this little red-headed person goes to where the people are with legs and then marries a man that she has literally never spoken to. I think it's got a great message for little girls everywhere.

MUSIC

[CLIP "UNDER THE SEA"] 

"The seaweed is always greener in somebody else's lake

You dream about growing up there, but that is a big mistake. 

Just look at the world around you,

Right there on the ocean floor. 

Such a wonderful things around you.

What you are looking for? 

Under the sea. Under the sea. 

Darling it's better, 

Down where it's wetter

Take it from me...

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Coming up, Nicole and I talk about her cooking competition show, Nailed It. Part of the magic of the show is the chemistry she has with her co-host, the famous French chocolatier, Jacques Torres. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): I remember the first time I said something dirty. He was like, "Nicole!" He's like, "Why you say that?" I was like, I don't know. I'm a freak. He's like, You're not a freak. You are dirty."

Dan Pashman: So what Not-Safe-For-Work chocolate sculptures does Nicole love to make for Jacques? We’ll find out. Plus, she explains why she never eats sandwiches at home. Stick around.

MUSIC

 

+++BREAK+++

 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. If you haven’t already, you have got to listen to last week’s show with Nadiya Hussain. Since winning Great British Bake Off in 2015, she’s gone from a stay at home mom to an international cooking star, writing bestselling cookbooks, and hosting shows for Netflix and the BBC. She’s also been open about her battles with anxiety and panic disorder, which were a big struggle for her during Bake Off

CLIP (NADIYA HUSSAIN): It's ridiculous, isn’t it? Nobody says, “Oh, well, you know, you're not great at the moment. Your mental health is suffering. Why don't we just stick you in the biggest baking show in the country, if not the entire world?” Really when you say out loud, it is absurd. And it had a massive toll on my mental health. I'm not going to say that it was a walk in the park, that I just kind of breezed through it. I absolutely didn't. I had more panic attacks during Bake Off than I've ever had in my life. 

Dan Pashman: We also talk about racism and sexism in the world of food media and how Nadiya herself has changed over the last few years. That episode’s up now. It's a great conversation, get it wherever you got this one. 

Dan Pashman: Now back to comedian, Nicole Byer. Nailed It is really an anti-cooking competition show. The competitors basically don’t know what they’re doing. Part of the joy of watching the show is seeing how badly they screw up. But it’s not mean-spirited, it feels more like the contestants are all in on the joke, as Nicole, Jacques Torres, and a guest do the judging. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): OK. Let's taste it. 

CLIP (JACQUE TORRES): Oh, my God. This is very dry. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): [CHOKING] 

CLIP (CONTESTANT): No! Really?

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): I'm so sorry. I was gonna be nice. Oh! That's awful. 

CLIP (JACQUE TORRES): How much salt did you put in there?

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): It's — you put only salt in that?

CLIP (CONTESTANT): Really?

CLIP (JACQUE TORRES): Did you put salt instead of sugar?

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): [LAUGHS] 

CLIP (CONTESTANT): Sugar. OK. Three. Perfect. 

CLIP (JACQUES TORRES): My friend, after doing that to us, you have to eat it. 

Dan Pashman: This show, Nailed It, has like really struck a chord with people. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: I'm curious, why do you think — I mean, aside from the clearly the fact that you are great in it and Jacques is great. 

Nicole Byer: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: But I feel like there's something about it that's bigger than that, that is connecting with people. What do you think that might be? 

Nicole Byer: Well, I mean, at its core, it is me. I'm perfect and one thing...

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Nicole Byer: I think it's like — it's a show about people failing, but you still get to win. And I think with social media, the way people present their lives now on like Facebook and Instagram or whatever, everything is perfect and everything is wonderful and people don't really show — unless they're like, I'm depressed and I am sad. Like, they're not really showcasing, like, the ups and downs of life. Do you know what I mean? Nobody's photographing a OK looking burger, you know? 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Nicole Byer: It's all like this decadent meal that I had or whatever. And I think Nailed It is just like normal people doing normal things. And you're like, oh, I, literally, see myself because I'm doing normal things and I'm trying to bake, you know, with my boyfriend or my kids or whatever. 

Dan Pashman: And I feel like there's something almost sort of oppressive about most food media that it creates this completely impossible standard. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah, everyone's fucking perfect. You know, I got this — I love Chopped Junior and there's always like a kid on there. He's like, I'm just trying to make my dad proud. And you're like, oh, no. You're never going to. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Nicole Byer: And, you know, I feel like an unattainable thing when people are doing like, you know, reductions and — like Chopped, they have to do stuff with shit that I've never heard of. You're like, what is a boysenberry? 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: When people on Nailed It are really — when they're going especially off the rails, do you ever feel bad for them? 

Nicole Byer: No, it's very funny. And one of them will get money for being bad at what they're doing. 

CLIP (JACQUES TORRES): This cake is good but a little bit dry. No butter cream. Unfortunately, you forget you need to be beautiful, but you need to be eaten. 

CLIP (GUEST): I think you baked the cake perfectly. I think it tastes great, but it would be a lot better if you had added the buttercream in. 

CLIP (CONTESTANT): OK. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Kelly, I liked your cake. It made me happy. It was chocolate and I liked it. 

CLIP (CONTESTANT): Thank you. 

CLIP (JACQUES TORRES): You know, it's all about learning. I do that for almost 40 years. I still learn things. 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): Forty? I thought you were thirty-five. 

CLIP (JACQUES TORRES): I love you even more! 

CLIP (NICOLE BYER): How are you learning in utero? Jacques, you magical. 

Dan Pashman: And I gather that you and Jack Torres have really hit it off. 

Nicole Byer: I love him. He's great. He's one of the sweetest men I've ever met. He like made me donuts one day. He invited me to his house. He pounded me with a bottle of wine. We tee hee hee'd and giggled. 

Dan Pashman: And I and I understand that you have sculpted quite a lot of chocolate dicks for Jacques. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah. He keeps them in his desk. 

[LAUGHING] 

Nicole Byer: A little dick graveyard. Jacques loves nasty jokes. I say a lot of nasty shit when we're filming and he loves it. I remember the first time I said something dirty. He was like, "Nicole!" 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Nicole Byer: There is one episode, I can't remember which one it is, but this woman, Snake, maybe — I think it might be the snake one. I don't know. This woman is making something that looked just like a dick and then they left it in. Jacques goes, "Nicole, what do you think that looks like?" I was like, "You don't want me to say it.”

[LAUGHING]  

Dan Pashman: But I read an interview with Jacques, who, of course, is a world renowned baker and chocolate maker. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah, I have no idea. 

Dan Pashman: He complimented your chocolate dicks. He said, "Anatomically, she's very good. She makes them very exact."

Nicole Byer: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Nicole. 

Nicole Byer: Uh-huh. 

Dan Pashman: What's the secret to making an anatomically correct chocolate dick?

Nicole Byer: Having a photographic memory? Having a bunch of dick imprints in your brain and nothing else. So you could just roll them out. 

Dan Pashman: All right, well, I guess that does seem like a logical — it's just experience is what you're saying, like anything else in life. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: You got to put in your ten thousand hours. 

Nicole Byer: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: Speaking of dick jokes...

Nicole Byer: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: One of things I was curious to chat with you about is, you know, I feel like there's a commonality between comedy spaces and restaurant kitchens. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: Very sort of male testosterone driven abuse...

Nicole Byer: Uh-huh. 

Dan Pashman: Abusive places to be for women. 

Nicole Byer: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: So I was reading this article in The New York Times and it was telling this story about this chef, Traci Des Jardins, who now is a big time chef. She's got a lot of restaurants.

Nicole Byer: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: But early in her career, she was one of the very few women in a high end kitchen in France, which you can imagine, not an easy place to be for a woman. And a bunch of live frogs were brought into the kitchen and a couple of male chefs were killing the frogs in an especially gross and inhumane way that I'm not going to recount. But they called her over and told her to do it, too. And she could tell that this, basically, this was a test. And so she picked up a frog. And instead of killing it the way they were killing it, she just slammed it down on the table and killed it in what she thought was the most humane way possible. And the writer of this article in The Times, Kim Severson, she's a long time food writer, and she said, "You know when I first heard that story years ago, and when I first heard it, I just thought it was kind of like a good example of a woman's ingenuity in a tough situation in the workplace..."

Nicole Byer: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: But now she sees it as an instance of workplace bullying and harassment. 

Nicole Byer: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: Have you ever had to do the comedy equivalent of banging a frog against a table? 

Nicole Byer: [LAUGHS] No. I came up doing improv at, UCB and I started 10 years ago. Ugh, I'm getting old. And I think I just, like, quickly established that I was a dominant person, and if some dude was going to, like, call me a bitch or whatever in a scene, I will look at him, pause, like, let the audience take in that this man just called me a bitch and then hit him back with something funnier and better and smarter. So I guess that's what it's like — I guess maybe that's the comedy equivalent in improv is just being funnier, better, and smarter than men. But any time a man has tried to force me into like a sexual thing in a scene, I'm not going to just do it to do it. But like, I will make it funnier than anything he's ever done. 

Dan Pashman: But I do wonder is being super explicit about sex in your comedy, sort of like it's own kind of defense mechanism? 

Nicole Byer: No, I've always been a pretty sexual person. I have a lot of testosterone and I've always been sexually explicit. And I think it was because growing up, it was people were like, oh, my God, I can't believe you just said that. So, like, maybe it started off as like shock value, but now it's just so ingrained in me that I say a lot of things and never really think twice about it. Someone the other day was like, "Your podcast is pretty explicit." And I was like, "Is it? I really don't think it is. But then again, I don't think anything I do is explicit. I think I'm just me. I don't know. I used to love peanut butter and baloney sandwiches, but the kids in class would make fun of me. And I can only think of three times in my life where I conceded to bullies. And one was — oh, wait, maybe two times. One was a baloney and peanut butter sandwich and one was gymnastics. I quit gymnastics over this girl being a cunt. But then I was like, well, I guess I can't eat peanut butter and baloney sandwiches anymore. I got eat them with something else. So then I discovered I like peanut butter on potato bread. So then I was like, but I also really like tomatoes. Why don't I throw a tomato in there. And then I would eat peanut butter and tomato sandwiches and I knew it was weird in my heart of hearts, so I wouldn't eat them at school but I would eat them at this lady's house. Her name was Mr. Arletha. She had a pool and she would like babysit me when my mom was working. And she would make them for me and she didn't judge me because she was an old lady and she was — she already didn't give a fuck and I learned a lot from her. 

Dan Pashman: What else did you learn from her? 

Nicole Byer: Not to give a fuck, because sometimes I like where my bathing suit and I be like, "Oh, I feel — I look fat in it." And she's like, "you're little girl. You look like a little girl." I was like, OK.

Dan Pashman: And do you ever eat peanut butter and tomato sandwiches today in the comfort of your own home in secrecy? 

Nicole Byer: No. I think eating sandwiches at home is like a weird.

Dan Pashman: Wait, what?

Nicole Byer: I've never been like, ohh — I think it's so weird to just make a sandwich. I don't know why I don't...

Dan Pashman: What do you eat at home? 

Nicole Byer: Not sandwiches. I don't. [LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Do you know where you can trace this opinion to?

Nicole Byer: Either the old like, "Get in a kitchen and make me a sandwich." So maybe my brain took it as, I will never make a sandwich in my kitchen and I'll never eat a sandwich. I'll never serve a sandwich to a man. Maybe that's where it came from. 

Dan Pashman: If I send you a sandwich in the mail, will you eat it? 

Nicole Byer: No. No, I'm not going to eat a sandwich sent me through the mail. No, because someone the other night said to me something that broke my brain in the moment. She was like, "All letters are sent from the past into the future." And it broke me because it's true. 

Dan Pashman: Right.

Nicole Byer: You write a letter and then you send it to the future because it's going to take a while to get to that person. [SIGHS] So, yeah. I don't want your past sandwich.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: That’s Nicole Byer, her show is Nailed It on Netflix. She’s also host of two great podcasts, Why Won’t You Date Me and Best Friends, the latter of which she hosts with fellow comic Sasheer Zamata.

Dan Pashman: Next week, I talk with Dr. Jessica B. Harris, one of the country’s leading scholars of the foodways of the African Diaspora. Her seminal book, High on the Hog was recently adapted into a series on Netflix. We talk about how her early travels to West Africa influenced her work, and changed how she felt about herself. That’s next week.