[RESTAURANT SOUNDS] 

Dan Pashman: I want to be the kind of person who doesn't look at the menu before the meal. There is a certain delight and a ritual to sitting down and get in the menu and kind of entering this world, the world of a restaurant.

Phil Rosenthal: When we do the show, nine times out of 10, I am surprised. We've read in advance probably months before what they're famous for. I've promptly forgotten it [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] until I get to the restaurant. And the shock and delight that you see on my face is completely genuine. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Phil Rosenthal: There's no acting on the show. I am really happy to be there and to be surprised, except when it's bugs.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. You know, a great part about my job is that I get to go out for some pretty good meal. I mean, that's kind of why I got into this line of work. Okay? And today, I'm going out for lunch with someone who gets to eat even more nice lunches than I do: Phil Rosenthal. He's the creator of one of the most well-known sitcoms of all time, Everybody Loves Raymond. And these days, he’s the host of the podcast Naked Lunch, and star of the Netflix show Somebody Feed Phil, where he travels the world with wide eyes and an empty stomach, excited about every meal, whether it’s khao soi from Thailand, shakshuka from Tel Aviv, or a sausage sandwich in Denmark. 

Dan Pashman: I think Phil and I are kindred spirits. I mean, I’m a radio guy who kind of stumbled into food. I didn’t know much about it when I started this podcast, except that I loved to eat it. And Phil’s a TV guy who cared almost as much about the lunchtime buffet that would arrive on set, as he did about the show production itself.  We met up at Frenchette, a bistro in lower Manhattan, a few blocks from the Freedom Tower. First thing we had to do was order. But for two people who think about food as much as Phil and me, this was not a simple process …

[RESTAURANT SOUNDS]

Dan Pashman: Phil, do you have a general menu strategy?

Phil Rosenthal: Yes, I do. 

Dan Pashman: Tell me about it.

Phil Rosenthal: What I just ate factors in. And what I will be eating. 

Dan Pashman: Right.

Phil Rosenthal: So tonight I'm going to Don Angie, which is a fantastic Italian restaurant. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Phil Rosenthal: And their pastas are amazing. So I won't be having — as much as I'd love to have the bucatini with sardines, I won't be having that today.

Dan Pashman: And you just had eggs in the morning, you said. 

Phil Rosenthal: Exactly. 

Dan Pashman: So you're not gonna have eggs?

Phil Rosenthal: That's the strategy. 

Dan Pashman: Sometimes I like to read through a menu and I'll really try to imagine eating that thing as this like sparking joy sort of. 

Phil Rosenthal: And then you're either delighted or disappointed accordingly to how those expectations are met, which just happens to be everything else in life as well.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Right, expectations are so key.

Phil Rosenthal: Expectations are everything!

Dan Pashman: Yeah. If you're going out to eat, do you ever look at the menu online in advance?

Phil Rosenthal: Once in a while, but most of the time, I like to be surprised.

Dan Pashman: Really? That’s interesting. I run into this issue sometimes, maybe you can give some advice for me on this, Phil. I will look at the menu hours or even days before the meal. 

Phil Rosenthal: Oh.

Dan Pashman: Cause I am by nature a planner and it's hard for me — and I get excited. I don't get to go out to eat as much as I would.

Phil Rosenthal: Oh. 

Dan Pashman: I got young kids. 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: I'm busy. And so when I'm going out to a restaurant I'm excited to eat at …

Phil Rosenthal: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: I look forward to it very much. 

Phil Rosenthal: Yes!

Dan Pashman: And I ... it's ... I can't resist. I want to look at the menu. I want to look forward to the meal.

Phil Rosenthal: You should have a podcast about this.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] And I will do that exercise of thinking to myself, what would this taste like? What do I want? 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: And then I kind of make a decision in my head. 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: But then sometimes I get to the restaurant hours or days later and I'm in a different mood. 

Phil Rosenthal: Of course you are. Yes. And if you had breakfast that affected you.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Phil Rosenthal: And if you know you're having something for dinner, you're probably not gonna get the thing maybe you expected to get when you first looked at it.

Dan Pashman: Right. So what? Should I not be looking then? What — like, because, because then I feel like I have this issue where my brain and my stomach are like not aligned because I'm expecting that I was going there planning to eat one thing. And I was — in my head. I was looking forward to it, but my stomach is saying, mm, we don't really want fish.

Phil Rosenthal: Dan, lie down. Let me analyze you. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: I think that — are, are you happy generally with your restaurant going experiences?

Dan Pashman: Generally, yes.

Phil Rosenthal: Okay. Then you don't need to change it. But if you do feel unhappy, I would tell you, maybe don't study it so much, so you keep that element of surprise. Go and enjoy it. Listen, don't you hate when the trailer gives away the whole movie now. It ruins the movie.

Dan Pashman: Right.

Phil Rosenthal: I knew that joke already. I saw it in the trailer. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Phil Rosenthal: I'm not laughing is hard now in the movie.

Dan Pashman: That's a good analogy. 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah. What are you getting today?

Dan Pashman: I feel like we're in a French restaurant. 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: And I don't ever order eggs in a nice restaurant.

Phil Rosenthal: Do it. I would love to see you get that.

Dan Pashman: There's the brouillard, the soft scrambled eggs with Comté cheese and truffles. 

Phil Rosenthal: Oh, man. 

Dan Pashman: Which like, you know, I'm expensing this meal, so let's have some truffles.

Phil Rosenthal: Nice. I think I see how you're leaning. I might do two things from the top section and not get the big entree.

Dan Pashman: I think that's a pro move, Phil. After all this talk of ordering, see, you're a pro. The appetizers are often better and more interesting than the entrees.

Phil Rosenthal: They have a sardine and anytime I see sardines on a menu, I go for 'em because I happen to love them.

Dan Pashman: Okay.

Phil Rosenthal: So I might do that and I might get the salad. And I'm happy to share it by the way.

Dan Pashman: Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm all for sharing. All right. I think I'm gonna go two appetizers.

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah? Which?

Dan Pashman: I'm gonna get the brouillard, the soft scrambled eggs with truffles. 

Phil Rosenthal: Oh, I'm proud of you. Yes.

Dan Pashman: And I'll share with you.

Phil Rosenthal: Well, I just need a taste of that.

Dan Pashman: I'm very intrigued by the bucatini with sardines, green onions, and chilies.

Phil Rosenthal: All right. I'm very happy you're getting that.

Dan Pashman: Cause that just sounds like a great flavor combination. 

Phil Rosenthal: You got two things ....

MUSIC 

Emily: Take your time. I just wanted to say hello ..

Dan Pashman: Our server Emily came over to take our order and convinced me I needed one more item to go with my soft scrambled eggs …

Emily: Our house made baguette might be a vehicle to enjoy it even better.

Dan Pashman: That was an excellent upsell. I just wanna compliment you, as a former waiter myself. That was flawless. I'll take it.

[LAUGHING]

Emily: It’s less of an upsell and more of I'm looking out for you.

[LAUGHING]

Phil Rosenthal: Wow, which is probably the best upsell line I've ever heard. 

Dan Pashman: Right. Yeah. 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah, that's great. 

Dan Pashman: Our orders are in, my psychological issues with menus resolved, Phil and I can relax and chat. As excited as Phil gets nowadays for a meal, as a kid, he was more obsessed with television.

Phil Rosenthal: A little too much. My parents said, "What are you gonna do? Get a job watching television?"

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Phil Rosenthal: And the punchline to that is when I did get a job in television, I sent them the biggest TV on the market at the time, with a note on it that said, "Ha ha ha."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Were you also obsessed with food growing up?

Phil Rosenthal: I was. I didn't realize it at the time. I grew up in a house where food was not valued. Delicious food was not valued, I'll say. Both my parents worked. Neither of them had the time or inclination, patience, or I'm gonna say talent to make delicious food. We didn't have a lot of money. So cheap was the cuisine of the house. Once or twice that we went out ever, it was like a revelation to me that you could have food with flavor. And I used to literally, I mean, beg to go to McDonald's just because it had flavor. 

Dan Pashman: Both Phil's parents were born in Germany and were Holocaust survivors. His father, Max, was able to get out right after Kristallnacht, the night in the leadup to World War II when Nazis raided Jewish neighborhoods across Germany. Phil’s mother, Helen, was in a concentration camp in France. After the war, she lived in Cuba for a bit, before eventually arriving in the U.S. 

Phil Rosenthal: That might have informed the whole gestalt in the house.

Dan Pashman: Well, tell me about that.

Phil Rosenthal: Uh, it's hard. It's hard. And now of course, I'm 100 percent filled with nothing but love and remorse at how I treated them as a child. For instance, when I was 10, I asked for the same Stingray bike that all the other kids had for my birthday. And my mother said, "Do you know what I got when I was 10?". Now, when you're a 10-year-old, you don't care what your parents got when they were 10. You don't need the story of how they walked to school in the snow, let alone a Holocaust story. 

Dan Pashman: Right.

Phil Rosenthal: So I only resented being the child of these people, which is of course, extremely selfish and terrible and I regret now. 

Dan Pashman: And how do you think that their experience affected their attitude towards food?

Phil Rosenthal: It just wasn't important. They actually saw it as an unnecessary indulgence. And when I moved into Manhattan after college, in my twenties, I loved food so much. Like I had had this epiphany in college where I went to an Italian restaurant — very cheap — with some other freshman at Hofstra University. And all I could afford was pasta and sauce, marinara sauce. So that's what I got. And I was expecting — talk about expectations — nothing. And it blew the top of my head off. Why is this so delicious? Not only did I never have it at home, there's an ingredient in here. These chopped up white bits of something that I didn't know what they were. I asked the kids that I was eating with, "What is this? These little white ...", they said, "What? Garlic?", I said, "Yes! Garlic!"

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: I've heard of it. I've never had it!

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: And it was the most incredibly delicious single ingredient I ever tasted in my life. And then I went garlic crazy.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Phil Rosenthal: But there was like, you know, in The Wizard of Oz, when you open the door and the — now, the movie's in color.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: As Phil got older, he sought out brighter and brighter colors. In his 20s he lived in New York City trying to make it as an actor. He started eating at some of the fanciest and most expensive restaurants in New York, but not often.

Phil Rosenthal: Well, when my parents found out that once a year on my birthday, I was saving up to eat at Lutece or La Grenouille or La Coq Basque or Le Bernardin. They thought I was out of my mind. I'm just flushing my money away. What am I doing? And I would try to explain that it's like a vacation once a year for the evening I'm on the world's best vacation. It's transporting. Years later, when I could afford to bring them, I had to beg, plead, cajole. And I wouldn't stop bothering them until they could experience. And came with me to Lutece. and my mother, the whole time is saying, "Philip, I'm really not interested in this kind of thing. This — I'm not ...", I'm like, "Isn't this nice?", "Yes. It's very nice. It's lovely." I said, "You know, a lot of famous people ... ", "I — that does not interest me.", until she looked over and she said, "[GASPS] Philip! Philip!". I said, "What?", "60 minutes! 60 minutes!". And I look, it's Ed Bradley is sitting at the next table.

Dan Pashman: From 60 Minutes.

Phil Rosenthal: And she almost dropped dead. She loved him. And her food comes and I'll never forget it. She takes a bite and she goes, “But ... well, this is very good.” 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: Like her particular dish because of what she chose.

Dan Pashman: Right.

Phil Rosenthal: Not anyone else's in the restaurant

Dan Pashman: Right. She's like a lot of this is nonsense, but what I'm eating ...

Phil Rosenthal: But this? But this is very good. And that was the attitude. 

Dan Pashman: But as a young actor, Phil was still mostly finding good meals where he could afford them, based on whatever odd job he had at the time to pay the bills. He worked as the manager of a deli, after getting fired from his job as a security guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. (He fell asleep on a 300-year-old bed that was part of an exhibit.) 

Dan Pashman: Eventually, Phil gave up acting, and switched to writing, which is when his career started to take off. He got work on some big TV shows, which was when food became even more meaningful. He says for the writers, after hours in a windowless room, ordering dinner was the light at the end of the tunnel. But the bosses on those shows didn’t always share Phil’s food philosophy. 

Phil Rosenthal: Well, here's what happened. I was on a hit show. I was writing for someone else. I was on a hit show. I won't say the name of it, but a memo came around in the office. I remember it verbatim. On the official show stationery, “We notice some of you are putting milk on your cereal when you come in in the morning. The milk is for coffee. The cereal are for snacks. We do not provide breakfast for you. Please do not put milk on your cereal.” And I thought, holy cow. I said, if I'm ever lucky enough to have a show of my own, we're gonna have milk on our cereal. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Coming up after the break — we dig in.

Phil Rosenthal: Thank you so much. Our sardines are here. Oh, that's so pretty.

Dan Pashman: Oh and the eggs. Oh my God.

Phil Rosenthal: It looks absolutely spectacular. Let's taste it. Shall we? 

Dan Pashman: Plus, we talk about Phil’s legendary lunches on TV sets and how a pivotal food scene on Everybody Loves Raymond inspired him to start the next chapter of his career. Stick around. 

MUSIC

 

+++BREAK+++

 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I'm Dan Pashman. Last week’s episode is a game. And guess what? You can play! Yes, it’s the return of "2 Chefs And A Lie". Sporkful producer Andres O’Hara gives me three people to interview. Two are real chefs, one is lying. I have no advance prep, can’t look at the internet, and only get to ask each one five questions. Can I spot the liar? Can you? Play along. It's a fun one. It's up now. That's "2 Chefs And A Lie".

Dan Pashman: All right, back to my lunch with Phil Rosenthal. When we left off, our first course had just arrived. I had the soft scrambled eggs with Comté cheese and shaved truffles, with a warm crusty baguette on the side. And Phil had his sardines. It was go time.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: All right. I'm going in.

Phil Rosenthal: Oh my frigging, frigging, frigging ... I want to curse.

Dan Pashman: You can curse. It's okay.

Phil Rosenthal: Holy shit.

Dan Pashman: Oh my god

Phil Rosenthal: Yes. Oh my God.

Dan Pashman: These eggs are like the consistency almost of melted cheese.

Phil Rosenthal: All right, bring it over here.

Dan Pashman: Stick your fork in there.

Phil Rosenthal: Mmm! Dan!

Dan Pashman: Good, huh?

Phil Rosenthal: Damn good.

Dan Pashman: Did you hear the crackle on this bread? Listen. [BREAD CRACKING]

Phil Rosenthal: Oh, you're zobbling with the bread.

Dan Pashman: I'm sweeping the bread through the egg. Just like she recommended.

Phil Rosenthal: I can't believe how luxe this lunch is, Dan.

Dan Pashman: This is hardcore, Phil.

Dan Pashman: All right. Back to Phil’s story… 

Dan Pashman: Eventually, Phil was lucky enough to have a show of his own — a big one. In 1996, when he was in his mid-thirties, Phil created and wrote the hit sitcom, Everybody Loves Raymond. And he made good on his promise that there would be cereal for everyone who worked on the show. That ... and a lot more.

Phil Rosenthal: I took that to the extreme and you can ask anybody, we had the best craft service in town. That's the food for the cast and crew and writers and everybody who works there, I would take money from the production budget of the show and put it into food because that's how important it was to me in creating a feeling of goodwill and beyond that happiness on the set. People couldn't wait to come to work. What's he flying in now?

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Phil Rosenthal: From Chicago or New York? 

Dan Pashman: You had deep dish pizza from Chicago ...

Phil Rosenthal: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: Or like Krispy Kreme Donuts [Phil Rosenthal: You got it.] back when they were only in the south, you flew them into L.A.

Phil Rosenthal: You got it. You got it.

Dan Pashman: You had special food trucks coming. You and your relationship to food, especially among Hollywood writers, is legendary.

Phil Rosenthal: Listen, it's nice to be remembered for something. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: On Everybody Loves Raymond, food wasn’t just a big deal for Phil and the cast and crew behind the scenes. t was also a big part of the storylines. The show follows the everyday life of a middling sports writer named Ray, played by Ray Romano, and his wife, Debra, played by Patricia Heaton. Ray’s parents and brother live across the street and are always dropping by, invited or not.

Dan Pashman: Phil once said in an interview that the show uses food to define the politics of the family. Ray’s wife Debra can’t cook. But his mother?

Phil Rosenthal: Marie, the mother, controls the whole family because she's a great cook. She has power over everyone because they would never do anything to piss her up because, God forbid, they don't get to eat that food.

Dan Pashman: And if she gets pissed, she'll take her chocolate cake home. 

Phil Rosenthal: You got it.

Dan Pashman: Or she — there was the time when, uh, Debra, her daughter-in-law, wanted the — a meatball recipe. She intentionally gave her the wrong recipe, because she didn't want Debra to be able to make meatballs as well as she could.

Phil Rosenthal: The whole power struggle was Marie wanting to keep her children her children, and God forbid that Debra should take her son away. So she could never let that happen. So it's beyond food, right? It's just she's using food as a way to keep control of, not just Raymond, but the entire family. And she loved that Debra was a lousy cook, until one day she wasn't. And we did an episode called “Debra Makes Something Good.”

Dan Pashman: This is an all-time classic example of the show in its prime. Debra makes braciole, a classic dish of beef, rolled with fillings and cooked in sauce. Unlike most of what she makes, it’s delicious. Ray brings the braciole across the street to his parents’ place. His mother looks on suspiciously as his father and brother try it and love it …

CLIP (FRANK): Are you sure your Debra made this? 

CLIP (RAY): I know. I know. I couldn't believe it either. She came up with some recipe.

CLIP (MARIE): Recipe?

CLIP (RAY): Yeah. What?

CLIP (MARIE): [LAUGHS] Real cooks don't need recipes. 

[AUDIENCE LAUGHING] 

CLIP (ROBERT): So Debra can now cook. The missing color in the Raymond rainbow.

[AUDIENCE LAUGHING] 

CLIP (FRANK): You should ask Debra how she makes this.

[AUDIENCE LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Later, Ray’s father Frank appears at Ray and Debra’s door, holding flowers for Debra. He asks sheepishly if there’s any braciole left. He begins eating it ... guiltily, stealthily, as if he’s having an affair.

CLIP (FRANK): Well, this is a beautiful thing. 

CLIP (DEBRA): Thank you, Frank.

[DOOR OPENING SOUND] 

Dan Pashman: Suddenly, the door opens. It’s Marie. She’s caught Frank in the act of cheating on her cooking …

CLIP (FRANK): I thought you were taking a bath.

[AUDIENCE LAUGHING] 

CLIP (MARIE): I was. I finished. Thank you for making it for me. You haven't made a bath me in 35 years.

[AUDIENCE LAUGHING]

CLIP (FRANK): Well listen, Marie. This is not what it looks like.

CLIP (MARIE): I’m not talking to you 

[DOOR SLAMS]

Dan Pashman: In the end, Frank realizes that Marie is still the best cook in the family. They make up … 

CLIP (MARIE): And Frank? We'll never speak of this again.

[AUDIENCE LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: Why braciole?

Phil Rosenthal: Difficult. Wouldn't think that a novice chef or even a bad chef could even make it, let alone make it well. That's — it had to be something that would blow everyone away in the family, especially this Italian family that knows this dish — that her — that mom makes and only for special occasions. And here, Debra thought she'd try it and then does it. 

Dan Pashman: It needed to be something unexpected.

Phil Rosenthal: Exactly.

Dan Pashman: So was any part of the relationship between Marie and Debra, especially as it pertains to food, was any part of that taken from your life?

Phil Rosenthal: Yep. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: The food thing, not being very nice to your daughter-in-law? That was my father's mother to my mother. That's where that came from. She would just belittle and make these little digs at my mom under the guise of a smile. And my mother was very frustrated and a lot of the fights were about that. And so I related to this a lot, cause I saw it all the time growing up.

Dan Pashman: Was your grandmother a better cook than your mother? 

Phil Rosenthal: Yes, but that wasn't hard. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: My mother was phenomenal by the way. I'm not gonna sit here and let you badmouth my mother. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Phil Rosenthal: But I, uh ... she cooking, I think she would even admit not her strongest suit.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

MUSIC 

Phil Rosenthal: Here's my salad.

Dan Pashman: All right.

Phil Rosenthal: Isn't that pretty? Come on. Thank you. 

Dan Pashman: That's a very nice looking salad.

Phil Rosenthal: That's a beautiful thing. I'm going ... I'm gonna start eating this with my hands. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. Please do. 

Phil Rosenthal: It just becomes more fun to eat salad with your fingers.

Dan Pashman: I'm all for eating salad with your hands. I think it's the best way to eat it. My wife is very disgusted. She thinks I eat with my hands too often.

Phil Rosenthal: Cause you’re an animal.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] This bucatini is phenomenal.

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah. Aren't you gonna put a tiny bit of that bucatini on that plate for me right there?

Dan Pashman: Yes. [LAUGHS] I was just gonna ...

Phil Rosenthal: I will send it back with some salad. 

Dan Pashman: You need a little bit of the other stuff in there.

Phil Rosenthal: That’s good. That’s good. That’s good.

Dan Pashman: It’s got breadcrumbs on it, too. Did I give you enough of that?

Phil Rosenthal: Don't go crazy. Yes. Good.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Everything was delicious, the pasta had sardines and a nice kick from the chiles, and more pasta dishes should have breadcrumbs on them. Anyway, Everybody Loves Raymond ran for nine seasons and ended in 2005. Over that time Phil became able to afford many more nice dinners, and to travel the world. Not just relying on one fancy dinner to transport him to a different place. The show had a lasting impact on both Phil and Ray.

Phil Rosenthal: We both changed each other's lives, not just in making Raymond, but in this example. At the end of season one, I asked Ray Romano where he was going on his hiatus between season one and season two. And he said, "Uh, I go to the Jersey shore,". And I said, "That's nice. Have you ever been to Europe? And he said, "Nah." And I said, "Why not?" And he said, "I'm not really interested in other places." And I thought, "Wow, we gotta do that episode." He goes, "What do you mean?". I go, "We gotta do that episode where you go to Europe as you, with that attitude, and you come back as me, someone excited about travel."

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: They actually went to Italy to shoot the episode. In the episode, Ray’s in a quaint little Italian alley. He starts kicking around a soccer ball with some kids. Then, he turns around and notices a pizza stand. He gets a slice.

MUSIC

CLIP (RAY): This is awesome. Awesome. Awesome. You know, awesome? Uh, magnifico. 

CLIP (PIZZA MAN): Ah, Grazie.

CLIP (PIZZA MAN): Oh, this is like the best pizza I ever had, man. 

CLIP (PIZZA MAN): You like more? 

CLIP (PIZZA MAN): Hell yes, I want more. 

MUSIC

Phil Rosenthal: And the arc of the character that I wrote, I saw happen to Ray Romano, the person. And in that moment, I thought, wouldn't it be great to do this for other people. And so I changed his life in that he enjoys travel now and he changed mine in inspiring me to do Somebody Feed Phil.

Dan Pashman: Somebody Feed Phil is Phil’s Netflix show. On the surface it may look like other food shows you’ve seen, where the host travels around the world eating incredible meals. But the key difference is that Phil is not a chef. In fact, he has no special food expertise whatsoever. He just loves to eat.

Phil Rosenthal: I would watch Bourdain and I would say he's amazing, a superhero. I'm never doing that.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHING] 

Phil Rosenthal: Isn't it refreshing to see one of these shows with an idiot?

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Yes. 

Phil Rosenthal: [LAUGHS] You were not supposed to agree with me, Dan. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: So Phil isn't the most adventurous person out there. He prefers a hotel bed and a pillow to a tent and sleeping bag. Still, just like he pushed Ray Romano to explore, he tries to push himself, too.

Phil Rosenthal: There's so much to be said for any kind of travel, any kind of, you know, stepping out of one's comfort zone. I realized getting on a plane or even taking your car to another state is a big deal.

Dan Pashman: Or saving up and going out to a nice dinner as you did when you were in your twenties.

Phil Rosenthal: Exactly. Or even  just walking down the street in Paris, for example. Just looking at the trees on the boulevards. I thought, look how they take care of — look how beautiful the trees are. But don't you know, when I came home, I started to notice the trees on my block in Washington Heights and say, "Hey, we have nice trees, too. They're different, but they're also great."

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: The comedian Patton Oswalt once described Phil as "The Mister Rogers of food shows". It’s a good comparison, just as Mr. Rogers would be delighted seeing how a cardboard box factory works, Phil gets excited every time the food comes out. In one episode, once the meal is within sight, he starts pumping his fist in the air. 

Dan Pashman: For the first few seasons of Somebody Feed Phil, his parents, Max and Helen, were featured on the show. At the end of every episode, Phil would get on a video call with them, and tell him a little about what he'd learned or eaten, like when he danced the tango in Buenos Aires. 

[PHONE RINGING]

CLIP (PHIL): Hello! 

CLIP (HELEN): How are you? 

CLIP (PHIL): I’m very nice!

CLIP (HELEN): I love to see you dancing the tango. That was my favorite. 

CLIP (PHIL): That was the most frightening thing I’ve done on the show so far. 

CLIP (HELEN): Well, you look terrific. 

CLIP (MAC): Yeah, but his dancing with a little klutzy. 

CLIP (HELEN): No he didn’t. 

[LAUGHING] 

CLIP (HELEN): 

CLIP (MAX): Stick to what you do best, your gift for gab. Forget the dancing!

CLIP (HELEN): No, don't forget it. I think you did very well. I don’t agree with him. 

Dan Pashman: In each episode, Phil’s father would also share a joke. His mother died in 2019, and his dad in 2021. I asked Phil how it felt to make the show without them.

Phil Rosenthal: Hard, I guess, emotionally, but I had this idea when my first, when my mom passed, I wanted to keep my father in the show for two reasons. One is obvious. He's great and funny. And two is, it would involve him in life still. And that was very sweet to have him tell a joke, which he was great at. And right after he died, I did think of their segment on the show. What would I do now? And it came to me very quickly. What if I called my funny, famous friends, and they would do a joke for Max and that would keep the spirit alive, and of my mom too, because her sense of humor was — is represented as well.

Dan Pashman: Did your parents ever get used to fancy restaurants?

Phil Rosenthal: You know what? More and more they did. It's not something that they would kind of seek out on their own, but they seemed a little happier when I would take them than the first time. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS]

Phil Rosenthal: So I took them — I would take them on vacation whenever I could. One memorable trip to Venice, Italy. We were staying at a very nice hotel and all of a sudden there was a knock on my door as I was getting ready for dinner. And my dad was standing in the hallway of the nice hotel in his underwear. I said, “Dad, we're not at home.” 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Phil Rosenthal: And he said, “Mom fell.” Oh my God. So I ran into the room and there's my mom sitting on the bed, holding her cheek with a towel. And there's there's blood. She had slipped getting out of the tub. Well, I called downstairs what they — they send in Venice, an ambulance boat. And, she said, "You go. I'm so sorry. You go have the dinner ..."

Dan Pashman: Don't worry about me, I’m fine. 

Phil Rosenthal: Don't worry about — so my wife went with her to the hospital on the ambulance boat and I took my dad and the kids to the dinner. And, um, she showed up a little late with 11 stitches in her cheek and an ice bag on her face. And she ate that dinner. She wasn't gonna miss it.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING] 

Phil Rosenthal: Yeah. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: That’s Phil Rosenthal, he’s the star of Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix. He also hosts the podcast Naked Lunch with his friend, the writer David Wild. Each week they have lunch and chat with celebrities and friends from the entertainment world. It’s a lot of fun. Check out Naked Lunch wherever you got this podcast.

Dan Pashman: He’s also got a book coming out in October, Somebody Feed Phil Rosenthal: The Book. It’ll include some of the most-requested recipes from the show, including Phil’s favorite sandwiches from San Francisco to Tel Aviv. You can pre-order it now wherever you get your books. And if you want a chance to win your very own copy of it, we’re doing a giveaway! All you have to do is sign up for The Sporkful’s newsletter by July 31 to be entered to win. If you’re already on our mailing list, you’re already entered into this and all of our giveaways. So get on that list. If you don't win this one, maybe you'll win the next one. You must live in the U.S. or Canada to win. Sign up at sporkful.com/newsletter. 

Dan Pashman: Next week on the show, I’m doing a little time traveling to correct my past wrongs. I’m visiting L.A., and seeking out a slice of coconut cake that I passed up years ago. But will I find it? Will the universe be set right? Listen next week to find out.

Dan Pashman: Quick reminder, that we're doing a live show this Wednesday at The Bell House in Brooklyn. They are a few tickets left. Get yours at sporkful.com/live.