Dan Pashman: What does it mean to have big dip energy, Alyse?

Alyse Whitney: Big dip energy is a magnetic quality that you possess that draws people to you like chips to a bowl of dip. And the person who brought the dip, probably has the big dip energy, and the other people they're the chips.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Alyse Whitney: You can be a chip, a dip or a switch. You have big dip energy, Dan. 

Dan Pashman: Oh, thank you. 

Alyse Whitney: And I think you've known that your whole life. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show we obsess about food to learn more about people. Today, we’re diving deep into dip. Now, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but I think dip is having a moment. A new restaurant just opened in Atlanta that serves only dip. Salon.com declared that fondue is having a comeback and Martin Short’s character on Only Murders in the Building has popularized dips in a new way.

CLIP (OLIVER PUTMAN): You know this is all I eat? Dips for dinner! I bet I have not had a regular entree in years — granted I’ve lost 14 pounds and a significant amount of hair, but it's totally worth it.  

Dan Pashman: To top it all off, my friend Alyse Whitney just published a new cookbook dedicated entirely to dip. It’s called Big Dip Energy: 88 Parties in a Bowl for Snacking, Dinner, Dessert, and Beyond! It’s full of Alyse’s boundless enthusiasm for dips, puns, good times with friends, and kitsch. On the day of our interview, she came to the studio wearing custom earrings that looked like dipped chips. 

Alyse Whitney: They're mismatched. One is a ruffled style chip with what I call cranch, which is my version of ranch. The other one is a tortilla chip with queso, and there's some rhinestones. I'm sure that we can get a picture somewhere into the content later.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] Well, they're phenomenal. 

Alyse Whitney: Thank you. [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: I can’t claim to be on Alyse’s level of devotion to dip, but I am passionate about it, and I have thought a lot about dip and dipping techniques over the years. So I wanted to ask Alyse to weigh in on some of my biggest dip questions and challenges, and about how she transforms some of her favorite foods into dips. But first, I wanted to find out how she got obsessed with dip in the first place. She says in her book, dips are a “universal love language”. 

Alyse Whitney: Have you ever met anyone who doesn't like dip? 

Dan Pashman: No, but if I did I don't think we'd be friends for long.

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. So, when we talk about love languages, we talk about what makes us feel love and how we like to give love. I think that dip can be given and received equally and if you bring dip to any party, it will be a hit. If you bring dip to a random gathering, it'll become a party. 

Dan Pashman: To me, one of the things that's so appealing about dips is that it's an inherently — it's an interactive way of eating.  

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: And for me, as someone who is kind of a control freak, and who puts probably too much thought into every little bite, it's like it allows you — you know, it lets you kind of run wild. I also just feel like dip is inherently communal.

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: I think that creates a sort of, uh, an unspoken bond.

Alyse Whitney: Yes. You're all in dip together. 

Dan Pashman: I told you there’d be puns.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Alyse grew up in Binghamton, in upstate New York, about halfway between New York City and Buffalo. She has fond food memories from her childhood, but her parents weren’t big cooks.

Alyse Whitney: I'm adopted from South Korea, I was adopted at 7-months-old. Grew up in a very white bread, wonderful white parents household, but very, like, shake and bake and, instant mashed potatoes kind of family. And I learned how to cook because I didn't like the way my parents seasoned or lack of seasoning in food. So by watching the Food Network, by watching food TV, reading food magazines voraciously as a kid, I taught myself to cook completely by watching and learning, and testing on my family, and buying ingredients because I grew up in the land of Wegman’s. So I was really introduced to a lot of international ingredients in a way that a lot of people aren't, if they have a small, tiny grocery store in their small town.

Dan Pashman: Even as a kid, Alyse was drawn to dips. The first ones she remembers making herself were ranch and french onion — made from powder mixes, stirred into sour cream. But there was one dip her mom would make from scratch on special occasions. 

Alyse Whitney: My mom would have these parties for a game called Bunko — I don't really know, I think it involved dice?

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Alyse Whitney: It was an upstate New York mom thing. She wasn't really a partier, but she played this game and she would make a seven layer dip of various ingredients and that was my first intro-dip-tion to what a party starter dip can be. Her seven layer dip was probably the one that was somewhere in a magazine or the back of a box somewhere. It had the refried beans, it had a guacamole layer, it had a salsa layer, it had a cheesy layer. And then I think that the trick with a seven layer dip is the top layers — it's cheating. It's really just garnishes. It's shredded lettuce, it's chopped tomatoes, it's chopped onions, and cilantro for me — not for her. But yeah, it was one of those things that you look at for the first time from the side and you see that beautiful side profile. My mom's attentive to detail — pure craftsmanship with this dip. So that was the first time I think that I dip-scovered that there was more to dip. But there were layers, and layers to love. 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Over the years, Alyse graduated from those packaged dips. She began combining her cooking skills with her love of dip to create things like cranch — ranch dip with cream cheese instead of mayo to add creaminess. 

Dan Pashman: She started working for food magazines like Bon Appétit and Rachael Ray Every Day, and she became known for creating dips for every occasion. Then in 2017, during the holidays, she went as far as to create an annual event centered around dip. She called it: Dip-mas. 

MUSIC 

Alyse Whitney: It can also be Dipmukkah.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Alyse Whitney: So I was thinking, I'm sick of cookie swaps. I love the idea of them and bringing people together, but I'm not someone who eats a lot of sweet treats. Why are the holidays only associated for gathering with either a large meal or with cookie parties? So I said, I loved — I've always loved dips and I've always had dips and been known for dips at parties. I was like, why don't we do an all dips potluck? And then when I came, at first it was called Dip the Halls, and that was still the slogan. But then I came up with Dip-mas, which just rolled off the tongue so nicely. The first Dip-mas, I asked people to either bring a dip or a dipper. 

Dan Pashman: Dipper is the catchall term Alyse coined for any food item you’re dipping: chip, cracker, veggie, whatever — if you’re dipping it, it’s a dipper. And most people brought dippers. Fortunately, Alyse had enough dips to make a little buffet.

Alyse Whitney: People at the time just decided what they thought was a dip. One person brought cream cheese with pepper jelly on top — which, technically, with a cracker, is dippable, if it's soft enough. There was a really amazing layered taco dip. And I debuted my Crab Rangoon dip, I believe, that year or the next year. It kind of all blurs together. But Dip-mas became something that everyone looked forward to every year. It grew bigger every year. I once had 36 people in my studio apartment in East Harlem. It just is a great way to gather people and they can dip in and dip out of the party because you can come in, even if for an hour, have a couple dips, mix and mingle and leave. There has been smoke alarms set off from buffalo chicken dip overflowing. You live and you learn with Dip-mas and I think that it really was just — it showed me that dip brings people together, and I don't think this book would have existed had I not started Dip-mas.

Dan Pashman: Today, the tradition is still going strong. Each year, Alyse reigns over Dip-mas with the title she deserves: Dip Queen. She brings her enthusiasm for dips, and many other foods, to her work writing her Cosmo food column: “Doing the Least with Alyse”. And to her time hosting and judging on the Netflix shows Easy-Bake Battle and Pressure Cooker. But nowhere is she more clearly the Dip Queen than in her new book.

Dan Pashman: I know you're familiar with The Sporkful. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: You know that we are renowned for our hard hitting journalism. 

Alyse Whitney: Mm hmm. 

Dan Pashman: So, you know, I hope you didn't think you were going to write a whole book about dips and just come in here and get a bunch of softball questions.

[LAUGHING] 

Alyse Whitney: You're going to dip deeper.

Dan Pashman: Yeah. [LAUGHS] 

Alyse Whitney: I'm ready. 

Dan Pashman: What is your take on double dipping?

Alyse Whitney: Double dipping is a cardinal sin. It is the worst thing you can do at a party because you have contaminated the group experience. If you want to double dip, double dip on your own plate. Double dip in your own bowl. Serve yourself and then double dip. I also have a whole set of techniques to avoid double dipping. Because only you can prevent double dipping. So, in the book there's the dip and flip, which is dip and then flip it over. Dip the other side. 

Dan Pashman: So the dip and flip, you dip one end of your dipper, whether it's a chip, veggie, whatever it is. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: You bite, you then flip, so you're holding the bitten end. 

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: And you dip the other end. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: You're okay with that? 

Alyse Whitney: I'm okay with that. 

Dan Pashman: Now one thing I worry about with the dip and flip is that if you're at a party, people might not see that you did the flip. 

Alyse Whitney: [SIGHS] Yes.

Dan Pashman: And so then they're gonna think you double dipped even when you did a dip and flip. 

Alyse Whitney: Mm hmm. 

Dan Pashman: How do you deal with that? 

Alyse Whitney: So you have to kind of be exaggerated with the flip. If someone's near you — if you're alone, do whatever. But, say you're standing right next to me waiting to go into the dip. Ah, we haven't chatted yet, I dip in, I take a bite. I flip it, and I, and I dip in again. If you looked away for a moment, you could miss that. But some ...  

Dan Pashman: And then I'd be whispering, oh my god, did you see Alyse? She's a double dipper.

Alyse Whitney: Yeah, and that's a really bad reputation, and really slander. 

[LAUGHING] 

Alyse Whitney: I would say you either have to be over exaggerated with your movement, or you have to express yourself, and say that, oh, I'm doing the dip and flip. And it's a great conversation starter. I do call dip a water cooler, but cooler because it really is a place for people to gather around, dip into new conversation, find new friendship, and that happens over a bowl of dip. But don't double dip. 

Dan Pashman: What about double dipping, like, it's just me and my immediate family, four of us?

Alyse Whitney: No, I don't like it. Unless you all have consented to double dipping. 

Dan Pashman: What about with your significant other? It's just the two of you. 

Alyse Whitney: You know, I didn't think about this. I'm currently single. If any of the listeners of The Sporkful would like to double dip with me, I can arrange it. Dan can arrange it …

Dan Pashman: There you go. We'll put you in touch.

Alyse Whitney: That being said, preventing double dipping can also be done by dipping alone. That is one of the techniques. And it's just eating with yourself, and you can dip, double dip as many times as you want. But, I think if you were just sharing a bowl of dip on the couch, then that would be fine to double dip, I suppose, because you only want to hold one bowl, but you can also ... 

Dan Pashman: Clearly, Alyse and I could say more on this topic, but I had other pressing issues for us to get to. I wanted to know, what are the considerations that she takes into account when determining the right shape for a dipper? 

Alyse Whitney: When dip-termining the right shape of a dipper. It should be able to not immediately snap and break under the weight of the dip. So it's a pairing thing as well, which I think is maybe a separate conversation. However, if you don't mind me opening this container ...

Dan Pashman: Please, yeah, let's do it. We're opening up a container. 

Alyse Whitney: Some show and tell, only to you ... 

Dan Pashman: I should have mentioned: Alyse came to the studio with an assortment of dips to share. She grabs a piece of carrot, in a thin strip. Like if you took a vegetable peeler and ran it along the length of a big carrot. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes, carrot ribbons. 

Dan Pashman: Carrot ribbons. 

Alyse Whitney: You can make them as long or short as you like. I have found that about two inches is good for the dip and flip. Any shorter and you can't flip. With this carrot ribbon, you can really slide it through the dip. It's flexible, but it actually won't break. Can you see that it's not snapping? Because ...

Dan Pashman: I can see ... Right. 

Alyse Whitney: Now it did, but ...

[LAUGHING] 

Alyse Whitney: As I said that. 

Dan Pashman: Right. But, see, my concern with that — my instinct with that, with carrot ribbon would be to fold it in half ... 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: To make it a little bit stronger. 

Alyse Whitney: Sometimes I do that, yes. 

Dan Pashman: Because I'd be worried it would be a little flimsy. 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Fold it and then kind of like run it through, like snowplow. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. So, I find that also there's a technique where you roll it up into a little tube. 

Dan Pashman: You roll up the carrot ribbon into — oh! 

Alyse Whitney: Kind of like a Carrot-noli, a cannoli made of carrots. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Alyse Whitney: That wasn't my best pun, but I do think that with something like this though, you, as you said, you like to customize your experience in dipping. You like to be able to have as much dip on your dipper as you want. So, I think that there's a lot of dip-terminating factors in whether a dipper is right for a specific dip as well. But overall, I think it should be able to hold the amount of dip you want it to, without breaking or falling or making you accidentally stick your finger in the dip. Did that answer your question?

Dan Pashman: Yes, yes. 

Alyse Whitney: Okay.

Dan Pashman: But I have more questions. 

Alyse Whitney: Okay, I'm here. 

Dan Pashman: What is your take on raw broccoli as a dipper? 

Alyse Whitney: Ooh, I really — I was at a party the other night and they had blanched broccoli and I sat by that table all night!

Dan Pashman: Blanched broccoli though.

Alyse Whitney: Blanched broccoli. 

Dan Pashman: So not raw. 

Alyse Whitney: Not raw. I don't like raw broccoli. I love broccoli, it's my favorite vegetable. I hate raw broccoli. As a dipper, it's disgusting. The texture ... This bitterness that comes out of broccoli, and then you get all of the little florets stuck in your teeth. That's one thing I regret not getting into the book, because I realized that I just thought everyone knew raw broccoli sucked and raw cauliflower sucked. So I didn't put it in the book. And now — thank you for giving me that opportunity to unblanch it. 

Dan Pashman: No, you're welcome. I'm glad we're getting this out there because — no, I agree with you 100 percent. Raw broccoli — I also love cooked broccoli in a million different ways. I detest raw broccoli. It’s gross. You gotta steam it. You gotta steam it or blanch it or something. 

Alyse Whitney: Anything. 

Dan Pashman: Raw broccoli's gross. 

Alyse Whitney: Something that I found is, with broccoli specifically, it's one of those really easy vegetables to buy frozen. I always buy Costco frozen broccoli. And if you steam up that bag — you also can roast frozen broccoli. Roasted broccoli would also be a great dipper. 

Dan Pashman: What is the best shape of chip for dipping? 

Alyse Whitney: Hm. I do think it's the tiny scoop, the bowl. And even whether you make it yourself or you buy it. That gives you so much surface area to nestle into. But also anything, as with Cascatelli, ridges that can hold on to the dip. So ridge chips. That's less of a shape because it can ... As you see ... 

Dan Pashman:  It's a property though. 

Alyse Whitney: It's a property. 

Dan Pashman: You want surface area. 

Alyse Whitney: A characteristic. 

Dan Pashman: Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, I love the idea of the scoop chip. I feel like it's good in certain situations.

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. It's not an every dip chip.

Dan Pashman: Right. My concern with it is that if you put it in your mouth with, you know, sort of right side up, those vertical walls of the scoop will cut the roof of your mouth. 

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: And that's a real concern to me. 

Alyse Whitney: I actually don't always eat a scoop in one bite, sometimes because the dip is across the entire surface. If you bite in, then you don't get it, like, jamming against the roof of your mouth. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Alyse Whitney: When you bite in, you're controlling where the teeth land versus all at once, and then it — I wonder if you could flip it upside down. I've never tried that. You do that with a cheeseburger, right? Have you tried this? 

Dan Pashman: Yes, but ... Yes, I have ...

Alyse Whitney: Dip to tongue?

Dan Pashman: I have tried flipping the scoop. I actually — I mean, a million years ago, I did a whole thing on this where I was interviewing a structural engineer and he was saying how, like, the strongest shape in engineering is an arch. And a 3D arch is a dome. 

Alyse Whitney: Hm. 

Dan Pashman: And then I realized that if you take a scoop chip and turn it upside down and put it on your fingertip, like a thimble, it functions like a dome. And once you do that, you can run that thing through like ice cold cream cheese ... 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: And it won't break.

Alyse Whitney: Wow. 

Dan Pashman: So I think there's a lot of merit to that, and it also alleviates your issue, or my issue really, of the fact that it can cut the roof of your mouth. 

Alyse Whitney: One of the chips I brought today that I never get because I live in L.A. now, is called a Dipsy Doodle. And it is kind of like a wave scoop, so maybe trying that will help you. 

Dan Pashman: Right, it's shaped almost like a ... 

Alyse Whitney: You can open it! 

Dan Pashman: All right. 

[OPENING A BAG OF CHIPS]

Dan Pashman: These are shaped kind of like sun chips.

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hm.

Dan Pashman: Sort of like a little bit like an accordion thing.

Alyse Whitney: They're corn.

Dan Pashman: I'm gonna open the bag.

[OPENING A BAG OF CHIPS]

Dan Pashman: Oh yeah, you know, I have a — yeah, they're like — they're kind of like Sun Chips, but they're a lot smaller.

Alyse Whitney: Mm hmm.

Dan Pashman: Which is nice. Sun chips are — I love the flavor of those, but the size can be a bit of a challenge. 

Alyse Whitney: Have you had the minis? 

Dan Pashman: No!

Alyse Whitney: Oh, they come in a — they come in the Pringles can. 

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Alyse Whitney: And they have Doritos like that too. Excellent dipper. 

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Alyse Whitney: Both of them. 

Dan Pashman: So, so what do we have here, Alyse? Let's talk about this incredible spread you brought. 

Alyse Whitney: So This is — the first dip is my shrimp less scampi dip.

Dan Pashman: Oooh. 

Alyse Whitney: Inspired by vegetarian friends. It is all the elements of shrimp scampi, minus the butter, which made it weird. I did try it once, and no. Olive oil. So the shrimp less scampi dip, I take eight cloves of garlic, I aggressively rough chop, then you kind of almost like steep it in olive oil for like four minutes, just on a medium low heat, so it infuses the oil in a quick way, and also gets just lightly golden brown, because that, you know, carry over cooking with garlic. And then the olive oil and the garlic both go into the sour cream and mayonnaise, a whole lemon's worth of zest and juice, some kosher salt, black pepper — galore, as much as you want. And I normally do chives. Could not get chives today, so I use parsley. 

Dan Pashman: Okay. 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. So, I have a spoon for ya. 

Dan Pashman: Thank you. Will you have some too? 

Alyse Whitney: Oh yes, I will. Sor dippers of this, we have the Dipsy Doodles, which — and we have Ruffles Cheddar and Sour Cream, I only mentioned it by name brand because they are the — my favorite chip. I'm gonna get a tattoo of it.

Dan Pashman: All right. 

Alyse Whitney: All right. Please dip in. 

Dan Pashman: So what we have here is we have some beautiful shrimp, we have some cucumbers, we have the carrot ribbons, we also have a couple different chips. Do you have a thought about what I should be dipping first? 

Alyse Whitney: No, I think that, as you — your favorite part about dipping is that you can choose your own adventure, so I'd please recommend you ... 

Dan Pashman: All right, well I'm gonna start with, I'm gonna start with the shrimp.

Alyse Whitney: Shrimp. Me too. 

Dan Pashman: Mm. Oh yes. Is there a lemon in there? 

Alyse Whitney: Mm hmm. A whole lemon — zest and juice. 

Dan Pashman: I love that. 

Alyse Whitney: Ugh. 

Dan Pashman: And what's nice, it's like a little bit creamier than shrimp scampi, but it's got that flavor of the — the creaminess you need because you need some dip-scosity as you would say. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: Some viscosity to hold it all together. But it's got the lemon, it's got the garlic ... All right, I'm gonna try — should I try it with a chip? 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. I just — I love this dipsy doodle shape. It's like a wing. It's an angel's wing of a chip and it holds the dip. Okay, so, I would love for you to do my Dip-scosity test, which is when you dip and you flip it over, it shouldn't immediately drop or dribble.

Dan Pashman: So now I have the chip upside down, the dip should not immediately be falling off of the chip. That's how you know that you have enough dip-scosity to hold the thing together. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Coming up, I ask Alyse for advice on what to do when my chip breaks off in the dip, which is a problem I have much too often. And she reveals a secret technique for next level dessert dips.

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): Mmm. This is so good. 

CLIP (ALYSE WHITNEY): There's a lot of it, so, by all means. As long as the editors can work around the chomping.

CLIP (DAN PASHMAN): Oh yeah, not our first rodeo, Alyse. 

CLIP (ALYSE WHITNEY): [LAUGHS] I know. 

Dan Pashman: Stick around.

MUSIC

+++ BREAK +++

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. And we are less than two weeks away from the West Coast swing of our Sporkful Live: Anything’s Pastable. In San Francisco, I’ll be in conversation with Vibe Check’s Sam Sanders, and also joined by recipe developer Asha Loupy, food stylist Jillian Knox, and photographer Dan Liberti, all of whom you heard in our Anything’s Pastable series. That's gonna be great. Then in L.A. I’ll be with comedian Andy Richter, Conan O’Brien’s former sidekick and host of The Three Questions podcast. That L.A. event that will also include food samples. And get this, we’ll also have a special appearance by my pasta fairy godmother, the one and only, Evan Kleiman. I would also tell you about our Seattle show but that one’s already sold out. So don’t get shut out in California! Get all the tickets and info right now at Sporkful.com/tour.

Dan Pashman: One more quick note before we get back to the show, at the end of this episode, I’m talking with the chef who’s in charge of the food for all of Norwegian Cruise Line. It's a great conversation, stay tuned after the credits for that.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Now back to my conversation with Alyse Whitney, whose new book is Big Dip Energy. When I found out she was coming into the studio, I knew I had to seek her counsel on a longtime struggle of mine. As I explained …

Dan Pashman:  It is a chronic issue for me, Alyse, that, you know, however much dip a dipper can hold, I'm always gonna push it to the limit. 

Alyse Whitney: Okay.

Dan Pashman: What advice do you have for me? 

Alyse Whitney: My recommendation for you specifically, and for anyone who also has excessive dip tendencies, would be to split the dip-ference. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Alyse Whitney: So you're going to take two chips, I'm gonna cosplay as Dan Pashman. So this ... 

Dan Pashman: So Alyse is putting an insane amount of dip on her potato chip ...

Alyse Whitney: And I got my finger in it too. 

Dan Pashman: She's got her finger in it. That's very authentic. 

Alyse Whitney: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: That's a good impression of me 

Alyse Whitney: And look at it, it's falling everywhere. 

Dan Pashman: It's falling everywhere. 

Alyse Whitney: It's a mess. 

Dan Pashman: Yes. This is — it’s like looking in a mirror.

Alyse Whitney: My recommendation would be that you take another dipper of your choice.

Dan Pashman: Oh, so you're actually shmearing ... 

Alyse Whitney: Shmear.

Dan Pashman: You're taking one dipper and shmearing off some of the excess dip ...  

Alyse Whitney: Onto the other. If you find that you've over dipped, [Dan Pashman: Right.] over indulged in the dip, that is a quick fix, right? Grab another dipper, schmear. Or, you know, if you have a plate, you could put it on your plate and kind of knock off the excess. In this case, you also — now I realize, could have just folded the carrot around the chip.

Dan Pashman: Oh. That's a pro move right there. Alyse just took the carrot ribbon, wrapped it around the dipped chip. And you're also going to get multiple textures in that bite. I want to try one of those. 

Alyse Whitney: It's like a lasagna. 

Dan Pashman: That's very nice. But, let's say despite my best efforts, I break a chip off in the guac. 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: What do I do about it? 

Alyse Whitney: It's a party foul, but it happens to the best of us. It happens to me. 

Dan Pashman: Even to you?

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hmm. It can happen to anyone. The structural integrity of chips varies, I think, between chips too. Sometimes, even the strongest of chips that you've eaten for decades, they can break. I recommend taking another dipper and chasing the piece. You know when you drop an eggshell into —there's a little piece of eggshell when you're whipping eggs? 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Alyse Whitney: You use the eggshell ... 

Dan Pashman: Right, 

Alyse Whitney: To get it.

Dan Pashman: Right, right, right. 

Alyse Whitney: It's the same thing. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah. 

Alyse Whitney: Use another dipper, a non contaminated dipper, and then you actually get a layered crisp that you weren't expecting. 

Dan Pashman: At this moment I’m too embarrassed to admit to Alyse that on many occasions, after breaking a chip off in some dip, I have done just what she suggested, used another chip to try to retrieve the fragments. But I still can’t resist overloading the second chip and then that one breaks! I’ve sent more chips than I can count to their demise, one after another, like lemmings over a cliff. Sometimes I give up and get a spoon.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Anyway, Alyse’s book covers a lot of dip ground. She has her take on classics, like Spinach Artichoke Dip. But there are a bunch of totally new creations, like cesar salad dip, where you actually put a whole head of lettuce into the food processor to give the dip a salad-y taste. There's also squash-ricotta dip with Japanese curry powder. And there’s a whole chapter on dessert dips. Or as Alyse calls them — can you figure it out? 

Alyse Whitney: Dipserts. 

Dan Pashman: Alyse created one dip-sert inspired by black and white cookies. They’re those big, round, cakey-style cookies sold at Jewish delis and every bodega in New York City. They’ve got a half-moon of dark brown chocolate icing, and another of bright white vanilla icing. As Alyse was working on her recipe, she found it was hard to capture the cake-y part of the cookie in her dip. So she got creative … 

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Alyse Whitney: A technique that I dip-scovered along the way that I actually — I didn't do my due diligence and research if anyone's ever done this before but on a quick quick search, no one was soaking cake in cream or cookies in cream and then whipping it. And that's what I do for most of my dip-serts. So I actually went with store bought grocery store cake with the frosting — a slice, like the five buck slice you can get at the — any grocery store.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Alyse Whitney: Because I experimented with cook — the actual black and white cookies, because of the hardness of the frosting, I would have had to like take the frosting off and that'd be so wasteful. And then ...

Dan Pashman: Yeah.

Alyse Whitney: And you're not gonna ruin a black and white. And also not everyone get a black and white cookie or a half moon or whatever you call it 

Dan Pashman: But just so the technique here for for the black and white cookie dip and some of your other dip-serts is that you take a piece of cake ... 

Alyse Whitney: You pour whipping cream over it, or heavy cream over it. And then you whip that cream and it has this lightness, it has the flavor of the cake, but it's not gritty, because it completely dissolves. 

Dan Pashman: So, when you whip the cream with the cake in it, it basically becomes the consistency of whipped cream. 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: But with the flavor of cake. I'm almost imagining it like cake batter. 

Alyse Whitney: A little bit.

Dan Pashman: Like cake batter ice cream vibes. 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Not, not exactly the same, but similar in the way that it's sort of like, it has that flavor.

Alyse Whitney: It has the flavor throughout in a way that you don't often get from a dip where it really tastes like cake. Like, a lot of the recipes that I saw over the years that have a cake — like a cake batter dip uses a whole box of cake mix, which has like flour in it. And I find that just not — didn't taste good. By kind of disintegrating the cake or the baked good into the cream and then whipping it, you get the flavor throughout, and then it is a lighter base, but it also has the density of the cake in it.

Dan Pashman: So Alyse hit on this technique, then decided to tweak the traditional black and white cookie concept by adding sesame. I love this idea, cause I love sesame desserts. She adds black sesame paste to the chocolate dip and white sesame paste to the other half. Then she presents the two dips side by side, just like a black and white cookie. She uses the same technique for her strawberry shortcake dip, which she brought into the studio for me.

Dan Pashman: Let's try it. 

Alyse Whitney: So the strawberry shortcake dip is normally made with angel food cake as the base, but I had to use madeleines from Target, cause that's all I could get.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Alyse Whitney: But they were about the same consistency. 

Dan Pashman: I'll take it.

Alyse Whitney: And then we've got some strawberries here that are sliced, and some little vanilla wafers, and chocolate. [Dan Pashman: All right.] Teddy shaped graham. 

Dan Pashman: I'm trying strawberry first. Oh, I got my finger in the dip, but whatever. See, Alyse, this is what it is to hang out with me. 

Alyse Whitney: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: But I got — see how much dip I got on here?

Alyse Whitney: It's a lot of dip. 

Dan Pashman: Mmm

Alyse Whitney: So you make a quick jam using frozen strawberries and a little bit of sugar on the stove and some lemon juice. You let that cool and then you mix that together with the strawberry — either the shortcake — you can — I've tried it with everything. I've tried it with like the biscuit style strawberry shortcake. I've tried it with angel food cake. I've now tried it with madeleines. It just needs to be kind of a neutral baked good. 

Dan Pashman: Mmm. It's so good. It's almost a little bit of like a mind bending experience because you have the flavor of cake, but you don't see any cake. 

Alyse Whitney: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: My family's going to love this one. 

Alyse Whitney: The, the pairing of a dipper and a dip is something that I think is often overlooked. And this, strawberry on strawberry, double strawberry, is the best combination. I love it with a cookie, I love it with other — with apples, bananas, but the strawberry on strawberry gives you that double strawberry. 

Dan Pashman: It's so good.

Alyse Whitney: And the last thing I'll say about the strawberry shortcake dip is that when I first made this dip, I was like, oh, all of the dips, the dip-serts, none of them are cloyingly sweet, so you can eat a lot of them. You want to be able to house dip. That is the verb I like to use.  

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Reading Big Dip Energy kinda feels like hanging out with Alyse, which as you can tell, is a lot of fun. But in addition to all the fun, and deliciousness, the book also has heart. One dip I can’t wait to try is her “Say KimCheese Dip.” You mix some chopped up Kimchi and its brine into a block of cream cheese. Toss a little kewpie mayo in there, a few spices, and boom. It feels like a perfect representation of Alyse. 

Alyse Whitney: It's all the best parts of me in dips. I didn't ever want to write an autobiography. And I think that a lot of people feel like they have to put their whole identity into their first book. But what if you’re — like I’m 33. I just didn't think that I've had enough story to tell, to tell that kind of first book, which I admire in other people for doing, but I didn't think that was my route. So I actually didn't know if I'd ever write a book, and then, dips. 

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Alyse Whitney: They came, and dips have been such a part of my life, and when I realized that could be the only thing I had to write about, it was amazing, but it's chipping away at my life story. 

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Dan Pashman: That’s Alyse Whitney, her new cookbook is Big Dip Energy: 88 Parties in a Bowl for Snacking, Dinner, Dessert, and Beyond! And you can see a photo of her chip and dip earrings on my instagram @thesporkful. I’ll also post a throwback there of a Cooking Channel video I did years ago in which I experimented with some pretty revolutionary dipping techniques!

Dan Pashman: Also, we’re also giving away a copy of Alyse’s book to one lucky winner! All you gotta do is sign up for the Sporkful newsletter by May 10th. Sign up now at sporkful.com/newsletter. If you're already on the list, you're already entered into this and all our giveaways, so get on the list. Even if you don't win this one, you might win the next one. Giveaways open to U.S./Canada addresses only. Sign up now at sporkful.com/newsletter. 

Dan Pashman: Next week on the show I’m talking with Priya Krishna about her new kids’ cookbook, called Priya’s Kitchen Adventures. And we’ll also hear from some of the kid recipe testers who helped her. 

Dan Pashman: While you’re waiting for that one, check out last week’s interview with Naama Shefi of the Jewish Food Society, about her mission to document Jewish recipes from around the world. The one before that, it's all about picky eaters. Check both of them out wherever you got this one. 

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CREDITS

Dan Pashman: Chef Eric, are you wearing chef's whites? 

Eric Bilodeau: Yes. 

Dan Pashman: I'm very impressed. I've interviewed a lot of chefs. You're the first chef who wore chef's whites to the interview. That's commitment. 

Eric Bilodeau: They told me it's a radio interview, so I said, “I need to wear my chef's jacket.”

Dan Pashman: Right. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: This is Chef Eric Bilodeau, director of culinary development and operations for Norwegian Cruise Line. NCL has been breaking the boundaries of traditional cruising and pioneering experiences at sea for more than 55 years, and Chef Eric is a huge part of that. He grew up in France and he’s lived in seven other countries around the world. He brings that international background to his work at NCL, overseeing an incredible array of award winning specialty restaurants

Eric Bilodeau: On the cruise ship, we have so many options. Like in Norwegian Cruise Line, we have a Bistro, we have a Greek Mediterranean, we have a steakhouse, we have an Italian, we have an Asian, Mexican ... We have a buffet, we have a main dining room that accommodates a lot of people in one time. 

Dan Pashman: To stock all of these restaurants for thousands of passengers, Chef Eric says they basically have the equivalent of an entire grocery store on board. That gives his chefs an opportunity to get creative.

Eric Bilodeau: Compared to a land based restaurant, I mean, for a chef, it's a dream come true to work on a cruise line because the sky is the limit. Everything is on board.

Dan Pashman: Even though stocking the ships is a finely tuned operation for NCL, every once in a while, things don’t go exactly as planned.

Eric Bilodeau: We were heading up to the Caribbean island. And we realized that we're not going to have enough eggs for the end of the voyage. So, we placed an order on one of the islands, one stop that the ship was supposed to stop to a local grocery. And then 40 minutes before the ship was scheduled to leave, the truck called me saying it break down on the side of the road, they call another truck, but the time was really short. 

Dan Pashman: And you have 5,000 guests on board this ship. 

Eric Bilodeau: And 1,700 crew. 

Dan Pashman: Wow. You need eggs. 

Eric Bilodeau: Yeah. 

[LAUGHING] 

Eric Bilodeau: You need fresh eggs. I called the captain and I said, “We cannot leave without fresh eggs. We're gonna have a revolution tomorrow morning.” I mean it’s impossible.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Eric Bilodeau: And he understood, but he said, “Eric, this — staying half an hour extra on this port is not free.”

Dan Pashman: Every hour that a ship is in the port costs money.

Eric Bilodeau: Yes. So, the ship stayed an additional hour. It cost some money to the company. And the next morning the captain called me all happy and said, “Eric, I just got the most expensive omelet in my life and I really enjoy it.” 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: So those are the lengths that Chef Eric and his team will go to to make sure that your dining experience on Norwegian Cruise Line is second to none. There's nothing like a cruise to bring people together and Norwegian Cruise Line’s priority is people. When you cruise with NCL, you’ll have the flexibility to design your ideal vacation on your preferred schedule. There are no set dining times and no formal dress codes. 

Dan Pashman: Of course on top of the world class dining, there’s so much happening on the ship itself and you’re constantly traveling to incredible new locations, all while only having to unpack once. 

Dan Pashman: Norwegian Cruise Line provides incredible experiences to guests all around the world. Learn more about everything NCL has to offer by visiting NCL.com. That’s NCL.com.