Dan Pashman: All right, it's that time of year once again to turn The Sporkful into a game show. That's right. It's our third annual 2 Chefs And A Lie episode. But I am not the host of this game. No, I am a contestant. Just like you. You ready to play? Let's do it. 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful. 2 Chefs And A Lie 2023 edition. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. And this week, we're doing that in the form of a game show. I'm going to talk to three people. Two of them are real chefs. One of them is a liar, an actor pretending to be a chef. I have to try to figure out which one is the liar. And so, my dear listeners, do you. 

Dan Pashman: Now, I want to the host of today’s game is Sporkful producer, Andres O’Hara. Hey, Andres.

Andres O'Hara: Hey, Dan.

Dan Pashman: So you've lined up three people for me to interview?

Andres O'Hara: Yeah, that's right.

Dan Pashman: And I don't know anything about these people. I don't even know their names. Every time this episode comes up in one of our Sporkful team meetings, you and Em are like, "Shh, shh. We'll talk about it later! We'll talk about it later!"

Andres O'Hara: That's right. Can't tell you anything.

Dan Pashman: It's very hush hush. I know nothing. So Andres, there are a few rules here. What are the rules?

Andres O'Hara: You can't use your phone. You can't use Google. No Internet. All you have to go on is what these chefs say.

Dan Pashman: That's right. And that goes for you folks listening too, all right? No searching anywhere. Okay?

Andres O'Hara: Yeah. And the next rule for you, Dan, you only get five questions.

Dan Pashman: This one's always tough. Yeah, five questions per person.

Andres O'Hara: And we're turning off all video, so all you get is the sound of the chefs’ voices. 

Dan Pashman: That's right. I'm not getting access to any information that listeners aren't getting. I'm not seeing these people. There's no extra info that I'm able to get.

Andres O'Hara: No facial tics, no hesitations, no scratching of the chin, nothing. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, that's a that's a very cheffy chin scratch there.

Andres O'Hara: That's right. You can't you don't get that, Dan.

Dan Pashman: No, I don't get that.

Andres O'Hara: Dan, those are the rules. So now let's talk strategy. How are you thinking that you're going to approach this game?

Dan Pashman: Well, so this is the third time we've done this. And I have failed both of the first two times to identify the liar. So I'm 0 - 2. And I think clearly that means I need a new approach. Okay, in the past, my approach was very much like, I'm going to ask detailed questions and I’m gonna listen for who seems hesitant, who's fumbling, because that would be, you know, a tell. They must be lying. But actually, I'm starting to think that that was flawed logic. Because a lot of the real chefs maybe they haven't been interviewed before. So they could be a little nervous. It might be normal and natural for the real chefs to stumble or hesitate a little bit and not have all the answers at their fingertips. Maybe it's not a sign that they're lying, maybe it's they're nervous. On the other hand, a professional actor pretending to be a chef is more likely to be very smooth, a little bit performative. So I think this time around I’m going to look for whoever sounds and feels the smoothest, a little too polished, answers coming a little too easily. That is how I think I'm gonna know that that person is the liar — or at least I that's what I'm hoping. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: All right, Andres. Who am I talking to?

Andres O'Hara: Let's bring out our first chef.

Jackie Carniesi: Hi, my name is Jackie Carniesi. I'm the executive chef at a restaurant in Brooklyn called Nura. It is a hybrid of Indian-Mexican cuisine. And I am from the southernmost of Texas, right on the Mexican border and the Gulf Coast.

Dan Pashman: Okay. Hey, Jackie. Nice to meet you.

Jackie Carniesi: Likewise.

Dan Pashman: All right, so I get five questions. Now, you already divulged a good bit of information there in your intro. I didn't ask you to do that, so that doesn't count as one of my questions.

Jackie Carniesi: Okay. [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: So you said that Nura is a Indian-Mexican fusion restaurant?

Jackie Carniesi: Yeah. Fusion is probably the appropriate word, even if it's a, you know, not a preferred or but word for chefs. Yeah, sure. [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: All right, first question. [PING] Why is it not a preferred word for chefs?

Jackie Carniesi: Ooh, I think just because it was like a really big thing in the nineties and like early 2000 and is kind of like indicative of maybe some like out of not so current food.

Dan Pashman: Right. You said you're from South Texas, so I assume you were exposed to Mexican and Tex-Mex food growing up. [PING] Tell me how the Indian influence got in there.

Jackie Carniesi: So I was asked to start this restaurant with the owner, Michelle, who is Indian. She's from Goa. And my background is largely in Mexican food. So I basically told her, I don't really have that much experience in Indian food. And she gave me the opportunity to kind of build this menu based on my background and her background.

Dan Pashman: I've asked two questions so far. My first question was about the word fusion, and second question was about where the Indian influence came from. [PING] What did you find was the key to incorporating Indian influences in your cooking at this restaurant, knowing that you didn't have a lot of training with Indian cuisine?

Jackie Carniesi: So I obviously did a lot of research, you know, reading a lot of cookbooks and, you know, just doing a lot of studying, talking to Michelle about the dishes that she grew up with. And in doing that, I found that there were so many parallels between the two cuisines. You know, the usage of chilies and certain spices, you know, a lot of cumin and coriander. And while our menu doesn't really necessarily focus on classic Indian dishes, it more so utilizes the ingredients of Indian cuisine and Mexican cuisine.

Dan Pashman: Okay. This is all sounding plausible.

Andres O'Hara: Those were three questions, Dan.

Dan Pashman: Three questions. All right. [PING] Jackie, what's the address at Nura?

Jackie Carniesi: It is 46 Norman Avenue. It's on the corner of Guernsey and Norman in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

Dan Pashman: All right. Little hesitation there. 

Andres O'Hara: Hmm. 

Jackie Carniesi: [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: She wasn't totally sure of the address, Andres.

Andres O'Hara: Yeah. She gave an intersection. Is that overcompensating or is that just She just she knows where she is.

Dan Pashman: Right. And she's probably banking on the fact that I don't know if that's a real intersection. 

Andres O'Hara: No.

Dan Pashman: Okay. Final question. [PING] Describe in detail the technique for making a classic Goan dish. You said Michelle, your co-owner’s, from Goa, that region of India. I want to hear specific — walk me through the recipe here, chef.

Jackie Carniesi: Sure. So I actually, over the winter, put a dish on the menu that is a seemingly very nontraditional Indian food because it is a pork dish. It's called pork belly indad. It uses tamarind and dried chilies and mustard seeds, a lot of onion, some brown sugar, so — and vinegar. So it's like a nice balance between, like spicy, salty, sour, sweet. And, you know, pork is not very commonly utilized in India, but in this very specific area that Michelle grew up in, pork belly indad is a classic dish that is used to celebrate big occasions.

Dan Pashman: Okay. Like maybe to celebrate winning 2 Chefs And A Lie for the first time, as I hope to do today.

Jackie Carniesi: [LAUGHS] Yeah, maybe I'll make it for you.

Dan Pashman: All right. All right. If you even exist, Jackie.

[LAUGHING] 

Jackie Carniesi: Yeah, that's the big question. That's the big existential question.

Dan Pashman: That's right. I know. 

Andres O'Hara: True. 

Dan Pashman: All right. Well, thank you very much. Your restaurant sounds fantastic if in fact it exists. So Jackie I’m gonna ask you to hold on. I’m going to move onto my next chef.

Jackie Carniesi: Sure thing.

MUSIC

Andres O'Hara: So, Dan, that was Jackie Carnesi of Nura in Brooklyn. What did you think about her answers?

Dan Pashman: I thought that Jackie's discussion of how this sort of fusion restaurant came together with Michelle — you know, I think oftentimes we hear the story of like the food being 100% sort of the personal experience of the chef, but actually a lot of restaurants come together this way. It's like, it's an owner who has a vision but doesn't have the expertise. An owner who wants to see a certain type of restaurant. I found that story of how this restaurant came to be very believable. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm.

Dan Pashman: Even though it might not quite have the same sort of like personal narrative that some restaurants and their menus end up having. 

Andres O'Hara: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: If you aren't inside the world of food, you might not think to make that up. 

Andres O'Hara: Sure, sure. 

Dan Pashman: Like, the most obvious on the nose fake story of a restaurant would be like I grew up with this. You know, my grandmother made this and I learned from my mom and I wanted to carry on my heritage and that's why I'm doing this dish that's been passed out for — you know, like, it's this long personal narrative. And Jackie's a little bit more of like a hired gun. 

Andres O'Hara: Right. 

Dan Pashman: Which is not at all a knock. Like, that's what most chefs are. I think that like, it's a less obvious narrative [Andres O'Hara: Yeah.] for a restaurant, which to me makes it a little bit more believable.

Andres O'Hara: Sure. So what you're saying is that that gives Jackie a point in the direction of being a chef. What might take it away is the potential hesitation around the address in this made up neighborhood called Greenpoint that you don't know anything about.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: I do know Greenpoint. Yeah, I mean, I think that for Jackie, the discussion of the details of the food was a little bit lacking.

Andres O'Hara: Okay. Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: You know, anyone can say that they put tamarind and ginger in some Indian food. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: That doesn't tell me that you're actually a chef. 

Andres O'Hara: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: She said almost nothing about the cooking technique. You know, like, is it braised or seared or what? And how is it plated? You know, these are the kinds of details that chefs think about and talk about all the time. So I'm making note that the fact that she mention any of those details. 

MUSIC 

Andres O'Hara: Okay. We need to take a quick break and when we come back, we meet our next two chefs. And then, Dan, you and our listeners at home have to decide who are the chefs and who's the liar. Stick around.

MUSIC

+++BREAK+++

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. A couple weeks ago senior producer Emma Morgenstern took us on a journey to the Appalachian Trail. It’s a 2,000 mile hike, from Georgia to Maine. Every yeah, a few thousand people attempt to hike the whole thing every year, but only a quarter of them actually finish. And as Emma found out, the people on this hike have some pretty extreme ways of making sure they're getting their calorie.

CLIP (TRIP): A lot of people will just take out a bottle of olive oil and just drink it out of the bottle. But you take three or four tablespoons of that and you put it into some ramen or you put it in the mashed potatoes and you add a bunch of calories and you know, you wouldn't necessarily do it at home but out here, you know …

Dan Pashman: In this episode, we also meet Cricket, a hiker from Ohio who takes a very different approach to eating on trail. But when things get tough for Cricket, she has to rethink her strategy. That one’s up now, check it out.

Dan Pashman: All right, now let's get back to 2 Chefs And A Lie. I've talked to one chef — "chef". Time to talk to two more. Sporkful producer, Andres O’Hara, who do we have next?

Andres O'Hara: Chef number two, please introduce yourself.

Chef Kirk: Hi My name is Jesse Kuykendall. I go by Chef Kirk. and I’m the executive for Ocho and the chef and owner for Milpa Taqueria in San Antonio. 

Dan Pashman: All right. Ocho and Milpa in San Antonio, Texas. First question, [PING] how did you get the nickname Chef Kirk?

Chef Kirk: I got the nickname Chef Kirk, through my sister actually. She was known as Kirk. And since I was going to elementary school and she was very, like, popular and they would call me "Little Kirk" and then it just stuck to Kirk.

Dan Pashman: This is a corollary to the first question, but I'm asking like, what about the chef part of the Chef Kirk nickname? How did you get that?

Chef Kirk: The chef part, well, I earned it. I, actually, ended up eventually becoming a lead cook and then from there moved my way up the kitchen. I also graduated from the culinary school, which technically it’s like you’re considered a chef. Once I started my actual lead positions, all of a sudden everyone was like, chef, chef, chef, chef. So it just kind of stuck already, and then Chef Kirk became a thing

Dan Pashman: All right. That's a strong opening there. 

Andres O'Hara: Sounds like a chef to me. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: I mean, when you come into this game and tell me that I should call you Chef Kirk, either you're definitely a chef, or ... 

Andres O'Hara: Or ... 

Dan Pashman: Or you're trying too hard to trick me.

[LAUGHING] 

Chef Kirk: Yeah. So being that I’m transitioning right now, [Dan Pashman: Okay.] female to male. You know people ask me what my pronouns are, what’s this, what’s that, I tell them, "Just call me chef."

Dan Pashman: Gender is applied to so many different certain types of titles, but there’s no gender applied to chef. This is my question number two.

Andres O'Hara: Question two.

[PING] 

Dan Pashman: It sounds like that nickname has taken on new significance for you.

Chef Kirk: It definitely has.

Dan Pashman: How so? This is follow up to number two. Still number two. 

Andres O'Hara: All right.

Chef Kirk: Yeah, so the nickname has opened doors. It’s actually made it easier for me to get noticed and recognized as in like, I’m the only Chef Kirk in town. So it’s definitely one of those things that like, once you hear about it you’re like, oh I know who you’re talking about. It’s become even to where like if the public sees me outside that’s what they call me. Chef Kirk, Chef Kirk. It’s like, alright. 

Dan Pashman: Okay. Question number three, [PING] between Ocho and Milpa. Which one did you open first?

Chef Kirk: I started off with Milpa. Milpa was actually a food truck. My mom had told me back in the day she used to worked the milpas, which is the harvesting of corn and stuff like that. So when I went to Oaxaca and started working there myself, I realized that I really like the name, and I really like what it was about, the cultivation and I embraced it. So when I got back, I opened up a food truck and I named it Milpa. And the hotel restaurant is Ocho. I had a friend that actually put my resume and slid it in. They were looking for a chef and he was actually working front desk, so he pushed my application after I told him, "No, no, I just started Milpa. It’s already hectic enough right now." But yeah, he ended up surprising me and I ended up getting a call.

Andres O'Hara: Two questions left.

Dan Pashman: Two questions left. Hmm. Let me see. Let me see. Chef Kirk. Question number four, [PING] Chef Kirk, tell me in detail how you make a dish on one of your menus that has special personal significance to you.

Chef Kirk: Yeah so, I love moles. But when I asked my mom to teach me how to make a mole, she was like, I'm a single mom with six kids. I don't have time to make a mole. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Chef Kirk: And I was just like, bummer, like — [LAUGHS] so part of my travel to Oaxaca was to learn moles. And the mole chichilo is one of the seven festive moles that they make over there and it requires a chile chihuacle negro, which is just really grown in Oaxaca. And once I tried that, it wasn’t a sweet mole, it’s very acidic. And the fact that you charred everything down to where it’s just like — it’s ashes pretty much. And from there you add that Oaxacan sea salt, and it brings out the flavor. And as soon as you finish layering the moles, like adding your ingredients, your spices your broth, all this other stuff, it just really surprised me how it worked with any protein from pork to venison to oyster mushrooms. So that is one of my things is like, the mole chichilo. Wherever I take it, it’s just a hit.

Dan Pashman: That sounds delicious, Chef Kirk. All right, I hope that that's real.

[LAUGHING] 

Chef Kirk: It is. It is. 

Dan Pashman: It sounds really good.

Chef Kirk: You know, it’s pretty unbelievable but also it’s real. It's real. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: All right, so final question, Chef Kirk, [PING] where in Texas were breakfast tacos invented?

Chef Kirk: Oh, it would have to be San Antonio. I mean I’ve had those Austin tacos, they’re very bougie for me. They’re very hipster for me. 

[LAUGHING] 

Chef Kirk: And then Laredo, well, Laredo calls them mariachis. So anything down south, they’re probably more known like mariachis or what is it — tacos almuerzo, but not like breakfast tacos, I would say San Antonio.

Dan Pashman: Well, according Jose Ralat there were a lot Taco editor of Texas Monthly magazine and friend of the show, as he said when we had him on, San Antonio is the correct answer, not Austin. His research backs you up, Chef Kirk.

Chef Kirk: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: All right. Well, Chef Kirk, executive chef at Ocho and Milpa in San Antonio, if those places — well, I know San Antonio exists. 

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Not sure if those restaurants exist. But thanks so much, chef. You stand by, okay? Stand by and we're going to come back to you.

MUSIC

Andres O'Hara: All right, Dan, so what did you think of our chef number two?

Dan Pashman: [SIGHS] Chef Kirk just seemed, like, knowledgeable. The details of the food, the thought process of the mole, the fact that, you know, talking about putting venison in there, it felt very cheffy, but I'm a little thrown by the nickname Chef Kirk. 

Andres O'Hara: Hm.

Dan Pashman: Because it just feels like if I was an actor ...

Andres O'Hara: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: And I was going to come out in this format and try to trick the host into thinking that I was a chef, like, it's — like it's almost seems hilariously on the nose ...

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: To be like, I'm going to tell this dummy that my nickname is Chef. [LAUGHS]

Andres O'Hara: And that's it. That's all we need. 

Dan Pashman: That's right. [LAUGHS] 

MUSIC

Andres O'Hara: Okay, Dan, so you've talked to two chefs already. How are you feeling about your strategy?

Dan Pashman: I'm feeling pretty good. I'm feeling pretty good. But, I mean, you know, it's — like, I have a one in three chance. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: And this is the third time we've done this. We played this game, and I'm 0 - 2. 

Andres O'Hara: Yep. 

Dan Pashman: So just law of probabilities, I should win this year. I should win. I should win one once every three years, if I'm just guessing.

Andres O'Hara: Okay. So now, Dan, our last chef on 2 Chefs And A Lie.

Kenice Ellen: Hi, I'm Kenice Ellen, and I run Priscilla's kitchen. I'm so nervous. 

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS]

Kenice Ellen: I run Priscilla's Kitchen in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Dan Pashman: Hi, Kenice. It's nice to meet you.

Kenice Ellen: Nice to meet you, too.

Dan Pashman: First question, [PING] why are you nervous?

Kenice Ellen: I'm nervous because I haven't been on a podcast before and I've listened to The Sporkful. And so I have, like, high expectations and I want to be good.

Dan Pashman: Well, we're going to bring those expectations right down right now, Kenice.

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS] 

Kenice Ellen: Okay. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: All right. So question number two, [PING] what year did you open Priscilla's kitchen?

Kenice Ellen: I opened it in 2019, right before the pandemic, and it was maybe not the best time to have opened a restaurant.

Dan Pashman: Short answer there, but I only ask you for a year, so I guess that's — it'd be unfair for me to expect more. Hmm. [PING] What was the inspiration for Priscilla's Kitchen?

Kenice Ellen: So growing up, we ate at all different types of restaurants or at least I thought that. I lived in Charlotte, North Carolina, and we had a place called El Cancun Mexican food and the Great Wall of China for Chinese food. And realizing as I grew older that these were not good restaurants. So really traveling around trying food in different places, going — I took a summer and backpacked through Europe like a very traditional suburban kid, and I tried so many different types of food and I thought, this is great, but what if we brought some of these Southern ingredients to this type of food?

Dan Pashman: [PING] Quickly tick off five menu items in your restaurant.

Kenice Ellen: Okay, so my absolute favorite is our sweet potato croquettes. So I was in Spain and I tried the croquettes and they were fine. But given that most of the potato cooking that happened when I was a kid was with sweet potatoes, I thought about what really pairs well with this and what flavors would make it a little bit brighter. Playing with sausage, onion, adding in like a lot — like so much, almost over the top. Rosemary. Roll that in breadcrumbs, deep fry it. And I almost set my sister's house on fire doing this. 

[LAUGHING] 

Kenice Ellen: But it's okay. We still love each other. It comes together so nicely and it's a great way to either start a meal or finish a meal. Also, this is another old standard in my family's kitchen is sweet potato pudding. But this comes with vanilla and bourbon and a mix of different types of potatoes that I think really makes the flavor, not what everyone's expecting. And then, of course, catfish. There's two ways that we serve it with a slice of American cheese on top And then with mustard, like a really just Tangy mustard with the fried catfish. It's absolutely delicious. We have green beans, of course, because we have to have some vegetables. Yes, there is pork in the green beans, but it is technically a vegetable and then dirty rice.

Dan Pashman: All right. That was that was a very thorough list.

Andres O'Hara: Two questions left.

Dan Pashman: Two questions left. [PING] Tell me, Kenice, in detail, the secret to frying catfish?

Kenice Ellen: Okay. The temperature of the oil is obviously quite important, but I think soaking the catfish in something before that really enhances the flavor. Some people do buttermilk. I think that's a little gross, honestly. But I think soaking it in some salt water, rinsing it and then getting the batter just right. And then we use corn like some cornmeal to to bread it. So I think — Hmm. I'd say the top thing because I've had catfish where they don't use cornmeal and I don't like it as much, so I'm going to say the cornmeal.

Dan Pashman: Okay, final question. [PING] What's the phone number to Priscilla's kitchen.

Kenice Ellen: Oh, okay. 704-541-7477.

Dan Pashman: That was pretty quick. Yeah. I don't know the area code in Charlotte.

Kenice Ellen: Charlotte is 704.

Dan Pashman: Oh, right. 

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: So I am ... 

Kenice Ellen: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: I'm pretty good with area codes, but I'll have to trust on that one. But I mean ...

Kenice Ellen: If you listen to the song "Hoes in Different Area Codes", they do mention "704" which was a point of pride for me as a child ... 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Kenice Ellen: Because I was like, we are one of the featured area codes for hoes.

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: All right, Kenice. Thank you very much. Priscilla’s Kitchen, if in fact it exists, sounds lovely and I would love to come there some time. I'll ask you to hold on the line, please. I'm gonna consult with Andres and get back to you. 

Kenice Ellen: Okay. Thank you.

Dan Pashman: All right. Thank you.

MUSIC

Andres O'Hara: Okay, then. That was Kenice Ellen in Charlotte in North Carolina. You've heard from all three chefs. So how are you feeling about your chances in this game?

Dan Pashman: I'm feeling pretty good. I mean, so as I work my way towards a conclusion here, I feel sold on Chef Kirk. I think Chef Kirk is a real chef. I just think that the way that they talked about the details of the mole, the acidity in the mole, and there was a lot of just very believable details. Plus, you know, I just — I just don't think that an actor would ask to be called Chef Kirk. I think they would be thinking that I would blow their cover.

Andres O'Hara: Hm. So it'd be too much?

Dan Pashman: Right. I think Chef Kirk's a real chef.

Andres O'Hara: Okay. We've eliminated Chef Kirk as the potential liar.

Dan Pashman: [SIGHS] I'm torn between Jackie and Kenice. So we have Jackie in Brooklyn, executive chef at Nura, which is Mexican-Indian fusion. And then we. Kenice in Charlotte, North Carolina, of Priscilla's Kitchen. Now, Jackie’s description of what she cooks, it just lacked detail. It just didn’t seem very cheffy to me.

Andres O'Hara: So that was a point against Jackie being the real chef.

Dan Pashman: Right. 

Andres O'Hara: Okay. 

Dan Pashman: But then for Kenice — and this really comes back to my sort of overarching strategy that I went in with, which was like she started off she said she a little bit nervous, right?

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: I asked her to name five menu items. She went in — a lot of detail on the croquettes, [Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm.] which made me kind of feel like she was stalling, [Andres O'Hara: Okay.] while she tried to think up others.

Andres O'Hara: Interesting.

Dan Pashman: And then she said she put mustard on the catfish, but like, didn't specify what kind of mustard. 

Andres O'Hara: Hmm. 

Dan Pashman: I'd be surprised if a chef would — when sharing a recipe would not specify the type of mustard that they're putting on anything, [Andres O'Hara: Ah.] because it's is the big difference. 

Andres O'Hara: Okay. 

Dan Pashman: It's like saying I put sauce on. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: You know, like any chef would be like, I put a sauce of this, this and that. You know, and I do this and that, and it's got a little bit of that in it. You know? 

Andres O'Hara: Yeah … 

Dan Pashman: At the outset, I was saying that, like in the past, I feel like if somebody was kind of nervous and stumbling, it made me think that they were the liar. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm.

Dan Pashman: But then I started to think that, like, actually, maybe I should be thinking of the other way. Like, the professional actor is gonna be the smoothest.

Andres O'Hara: Right.

Dan Pashman: Kenice came right out and said, like, “I'm really nervous.”

Andres O'Hara: Sure.

Dan Pashman: But is that just a ploy? 

Andres O'Hara: Uh-huh. 

Dan Pashman: Something just in the way that she talked, her delivery sounded like like this was not her first time performing. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: That was also a big tip off to me.

Andres O'Hara: Okay. 

Dan Pashman: There's two more things that are sticking with me here, Andres. 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: With regard to Kenice in Charlotte ... 

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: The joke about referencing hoes in other area codes.

Andres O'Hara: Sure.

Dan Pashman: There was like there was a strong comedic timing with that delivery.

Andres O'Hara: Ohh.

Dan Pashman: And also I did not pick up on much of a Southern accent.

Andres O'Hara: Okay.

Dan Pashman: Which I know not everyone in the South, especially these days as people have traveled and migrate around the country, that's not an automatic.

Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm.

Dan Pashman: For someone who is cooking food so steeped in southern cooking. [Andres O'Hara: Mm-hmm.] I would have thought there'd be, like, at least a twinge, maybe not deep drawl, but, like, a little something. 

Andres O'Hara: Okay.

MUSIC

Andres O'Hara: Okay, listeners, time for you to decide who are the chefs and who's the liar.

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: And now, I’m ready to reveal my final answer. I think that the fake chef, the liar is Kenice of Priscilla's kitchen in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Andres O'Hara: And that is your final answer?

Dan Pashman: That's my final answer. Okay.

Andres O'Hara: If the real liar can please come forward and tell us who they are.

Kenice Ellen: Oh, my gosh. It was me!

Dan Pashman: Yes!

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: Finally.

Kenice Ellen: The thing is, I am from Charlotte and all of the details are correct in some ways, but ... 

Andres O'Hara: Dan, you jerk!

[LAUGHING] 

Kenice Ellen: I'm not — growing up, I was told I wasn't allowed to have a Southern accent because people think Southern accent sounds stupid. And if I wanted to do well in life, I need to get rid of my accent.

[LAUGHING]

Andres O'Hara: Kenice just please just introduce yourself. Tell us all about yourself. 

Dan Pashman: Yeah, tell us more about yourself. 

Kenice Ellen: Sure. Hi. I am Kenice Mobley, a comedian living in Brooklyn, New York. And so same borough as Jackie. The closest I've come to working in a kitchen is that I worked at a Chuck E. Cheese for a year. 

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: Got it. And so you see, Kenice, one of the things that I was thinking was like, you know, as a trained performer, of course, you're going to make up a story that connects to your real lived experience in some way because you'll be able to fake it better. 

Kenice Ellen: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Pashman: But you know, you just sounded polished. You know, you sound like like, you know what you're doing. I'm sure you're a very good performer, but ... 

Kenice Ellen: Thank you. 

Dan Pashman: But I got you today.

Kenice Ellen: I'm disappointed, but I accept my defeat.

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: What kind of mustard would you like on your catfish.

Kenice Ellen: So my mom uses French's American [Dan Pashman: Okay.] super yellow like chemical mustard. 

Dan Pashman: Right.

Kenice Ellen: And I prefer, like, a dijon mustard.

Dan Pashman: Okay, fair enough.

Andres O'Hara: Okay.

Dan Pashman: Kenice, I'll ask you one more quick question. Tell me, what was your strategy going into this to impersonate a chef?

Kenice Ellen: Really listen to the actual chefs and try to incorporate enough language like them, but not so much that it sounded just like a regurgitation of what they said, but really just go with the food that I like and I do like cooking and those are the things that I like to cook.

Dan Pashman: Well, you almost pulled it off, Kenice. You almost got another one past old Dan. But not this year. 

Andres O'Hara: Nope.

Dan Pashman: Kenice you tell us where folks could find your work?

Kenice Ellen: You can find me at kenicemobley.com. And I'm also on all the socials as Kenice Mobley. I have a one person show coming up at Union Hall on July 29th at 5 p.m. so you can get dinner afterwards. Thank you so much.

Dan Pashman: Thank you Kenice. 

Andres O'Hara: Thanks. 

Dan Pashman: And let's also say farewell to our real chefs. Chef Kirk, I never really had a doubt. You came with the chef nickname and I was sold.

Chef Kirk: [LAUGHS] I was hoping the chef nickname would throw you off. 

[LAUGHING] 

Dan Pashman: Alright well, Chef Kirk from Ocho and Milpa in San Antonio. Thank you so much.

Dan Pashman: And finally, we have Jackie Carnesi, executive chef at Nura. I was on the fence, Jackie.

Andres O'Hara: Jackie, how did you feel about almost being considered the liar in this game?

Jackie Carniesi: You know, I — you know, it did sting a little bit, if I'm being quite honest, because I do know how to make food. but ... 

[LAUGHING] 

Jackie Carniesi: Cause I do know how to make food.

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: All right. Well, Jackie, your restaurant sounds delicious, and I can't wait to check it out. It's Nura in Brooklyn.

Jackie Carniesi: Yeah, please do.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Well, I feel relieved.

Andres O'Hara: [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: This was really weighing on me, you know, to whiff on all of the first three 2 Chefs in a Lie competitions would have been sad for me. So I'm glad I got this monkey off my back. And I can say that I pulled one out. So, yeah, I feel good. 

Andres O'Hara: You did it, Dan.

Dan Pashman: I'm carrying home the trophy today.

Andres O'Hara: That's right. I'm proud of you.

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: All right, Sporkful producer Andres O’Hara, thanks so much.

Andres O'Hara: Thank you, Dan. 

Dan Pashman: Next week on the show, we’re bringing you breaking news about ice. We’re serious about ice here at The Sporkful, and in fact, this is the second time we’e devoted an entire episode to the topic. And it is a hot topic. Ice is quite hot in fact. So what’s the news, and why should you care about it? Tune in next week to find out.

Dan Pashman: While you’re waiting for that one, check out our episode from a couple weeks ago about eating on the Appalachian Trail, as well as last week’s episode when I visit Monticello to learn about the enslaved chefs who created American cuisine. Those are both out now.