Dan Pashman: This episode contains explicit language and, since we’re talking with a famous music producer, sex, drugs and rock n roll. 

Dan Pashman: Benny, the first thing I want to ask you is, you say you're obsessed with organizing your fridge.

benny blanco: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: You say in your cookbook that sometimes you stare into it for an hour debating whether you want to arrange your hot sauces alphabetically or by size.

benny blanco: Yeah, it's, it's ... It's a torture. [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: So, what's your current fridge sitch? How are things organized this week?

benny blanco: Literally last night, I was so upset. It was like 2 AM. I like — I'm exhausted from my day. I, like, opened up the left side of the fridge where I keep all the drinks. And I had like put in some cans of, like, soda or, like, sparkling water, but there wasn't enough room. So, like, one of them had to be, like, on top of it. And I ... I lost my mind. [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] I rearranged for so long, and then after like 15 minutes of rearranging, I was like, fuck, I gotta — I just have to drink this right now. I have to. There's one extra, I have to drink it. It tortures me.

Dan Pashman: I understand. I will spend five minutes rearranging the dishwasher to fit one more item in there [benny blanco: Yeah, yeah.] that I could have hand washed in 10 seconds.

benny blanco: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you like cleaning? I love cleaning.

Dan Pashman: When I have the time, yes, I do. I love mopping. Ever since I was a little child, mopping and vacuuming, especially.

benny blanco: Oh, that's crazy. No one loves mopping. You're insane. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] What?! I like clean countertops and clean floors. 

benny blanco: Oh! 

Dan Pashman: I'm more…

benny blanco: Nothing better than cleaning a countertop.

Dan Pashman: Yeah! [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Literally!

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: This is The Sporkful, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show we obsess about food to learn more about people. I want to start off by saying a quick thank you to all the people who have come out to our live shows over the past month or two. It has been really great to meet so many of you in person and hear that The Sporkful is such a big part of your lives. It means a lot to me and to everyone who works on the show, and so thank you. And on that note, I want to add that the final show of my Sporkful Live: Anything’s Pastable tour is this Thursday May 2nd in Los Angeles! I’ll be in conversation with comedian Andy Richter, we're gonna have free food samples from Wax Paper, and a special appearance by my pasta fairy godmother, Evan Kleiman, live and in person.  There are still a few tickets are still available, so get yours at sporkful.com/events! And while the main book tour is wrapping up, I’m adding more new events, including a virtual one that you can join no matter where you live. I’ll have details on those later in the show.

Dan Pashman: Okay, let’s get into it. This week I'm talking with benny blanco, the superstar music producer and artist behind so many huge songs, including these hits by Katy Perry ...

[CLIP KATY PERRY "TEENAGE DREAM"]

Dan Pashman: Justin Bieber… 

[CLIP JUSTIN BIEBER "LONELY"] 

Dan Pashman: Maroon 5 …

[CLIP MAROON 5 "MOVES LIKE JAGGER"]

Dan Pashman: And Rihanna… 

[CLIP RIHANNA "DIAMONDS"] 

Dan Pashman: Altogether, benny has credits on 29 number one singles. Being a producer means he works with artists to write music or lyrics, or give them input during recording and mix sessions. And on top of all of that that, he's also put out two albums of his own that have been streamed billions of times. And he owns his own record label.

Dan Pashman: So benny's known for his music. But he's also known for a few other things. Number 1: He's dating Selena Gomez. We're not gonna talk about that in this episode, but you know, I thought you should know. Number 2: He played himself on the FXX show Dave, which stars the real-life rapper, Lil Dicky. In benny’s first ever scene in the show tells you a lot about his persona:

CLIP (DAVE): Somebody lay me down, pour buttermilk all over me, dust me in a light dusting of cornflakes, front flip me into a deep fryer, light me on fire, gently blow me off … what’s up man, I’m benny blanco. 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Now, the third thing people know benny for is the reason we're talking to him today. He’s just written his first cookbook: Open Wide: A Cookbook for Friends. It's an outgrowth of his obsession with food, which is at least as powerful as his obsession with clean countertops, and his love for throwing crazy parties at his house in L.A.

benny blanco: To me, here's a perfect dinner party. Okay?

Dan Pashman: Yeah. 

benny blanco: You have people sitting around a table. They couldn't be from more different worlds, you know? You're creating an experience. To me, I'm always creating, like ... I want to create an experience. So if we're doing, like, an Italian night, I want there to be like red checker tablecloths when you come in. I want there to be like old Italian music that's just like ... [sings]

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: You know? And like you come in, you're like, "Wow, I really feel like Sinatra." Like, or I really feel like that scene in Goodfellas where they're like trying to make the meatballs and they got fucking stains on their shirts …

Dan Pashman: The helicopters overhead?

benny blanco: Yeah. Yeah. You hire a few helicopters …

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: benny's love for bringing together all kinds of people might have something to do with his upbringing in Reston, Virginia. It's a town outside of D.C. that was first imagined as a planned community in the 1960s — so it was a town constructed from whole cloth. The idea was to have a self-contained community with homes, jobs, shopping, and leisure activities. And the homes themselves would be all different types of housing, all different sizes, so people from all walks of life could live there.

benny blanco: They brought all economic backgrounds and types of people together. And you could have low income housing right next to, like, a large single family home. And it was really cool. It made — like, my school was so diverse. We really got to know, like, so many different types of cuisines, because there was such huge populations of where I grew up of a — you know, cause you're right near D.C. So it's like, so much like El Salvadorian food, so much Nigerian food, so much Middle Eastern food and yeah, I thought everyone like went down and got El Salvadorian chicken every day and, like, I don't — it just felt like a norm to me growing up.

Dan Pashman: One of benny’s favorite restaurants was a local place called Reston Kebab.

benny blanco: I was so excited whenever we'd go there. My mom would take me there, and we would get one of the meals and she would ask for, like, extra pita and extra sauce and she figured out a way how to make it so that one meal was like three meals for each of us. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: And I always you know, I always admired — you know in the moment. I was like, I hate you, we're just eating the same stuff. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

benny blanco: But like I always admired how she could do like leftovers.

Dan Pashman: Another one of benny’s favorites came from Safeway, the grocery store chain.

benny blanco: They had apple fritter doughnuts, okay? 

Dan Pashman: Ooh. 

benny blanco: And you would get three of them for a dollar, like three of the biggest apple fritter doughnuts you've ever seen. At that point, I had never had sex, so it was the closest thing I could say — I could say, this is better than sex. And now, after having sex, I could say .... It's at least equal. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: It's at least equal. And, every time it's my birthday, I have to eat, like, minimum two and a half full apple fritter doughnuts. And it's still like this, like, nostalgic moment that I can't break free of. 

Dan Pashman: Right. I have a controversial opinion, Benny. I've had warm apple fritters, like right out of the fryer, and I actually like them better when they're room temperature.

benny blanco: Of course. 

Dan Pashman: Why do you think so? 

benny blanco: I don't even think that's controversial.

Dan Pashman: It's not? 

benny blanco: I think that's like … 

Dan Pashman: I thought people would just assumed that like a warm ... a warm confection [benny blanco: No. ] is better than room temperature. 

benny blanco: No, no, no, no. You want it like, so, like, the — all, like, the icing is like coagulated and like ... 

Dan Pashman: Yes!

benny blanco: I prefer it a few days.

[LAUGHING]

Dan Pashman: Yeah! But you need a little bit of like a sugary shell to ...

 benny blanco: Yeah, I prefer it like hidden underneath my bed for a week. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Um, no, I love — oh my god. No one — whoever wants a warm apple fritter, fuck you.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

Dan Pashman: benny was into making music from a really young age, and in fact, he won a contest to record his own song in a studio when he was 9. So music was always part of his story. His interest in cooking came a little later, when he was a teenager. His parents had divorced by then, and his dad lived elsewhere. Then his mom got a job out of state. benny still lived with her, but she traveled a lot for work. That led to a pivotal moment — he started cooking for himself more.

benny blanco: One of my friends when I was like 13 or 14, got a George Foreman grill. And as a stoned teenager, that's the Holy grail. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Like we didn't even know what it was. And then all of a sudden we're like, "Whoa! Like you can melt anything in here. You could cook anything!" Like the George Foreman grill was the greatest invention to a teenage mind. 

Dan Pashman: Now in case you only vaguely know what a George Foreman grill is, it’s basically like a small panini press with a bumpy surface that would leave grill marks on anything you put in it. It was sort of the air fryer of its day, the trendy cooking appliance. It was originally intended more for meats and veggies but people learned you can put almost anything on one of them. 

benny blanco: We would all go to my friend's house, and somehow, one gram of weed would get 28 of us stoned, and we would sit there, we'd smoke, and then we'd make the craziest concoctions of food that we could make. And like we were making like sandwiches with like cheese and like rice vinegars and like nothing made sense but we were ... We were Gordon Ramsay. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: And I remember making a sandwich, and everyone was waiting, like, when you make your sandwich, and I, like, pulled it out, and I, like, cut it up into a bunch of pieces, and I was like, "This is insane. You guys gotta try this." And then like, everyone did the, "Mmm, oh! Oh!" like, everyone did their orgasm face. In that moment, I was just like, whoa, okay. This is that feeling that I get, like, when I make a song, when I make music. I get this little feeling in my stomach. It's like butterflies almost. It's kind of, like, anxiety — like I can't even explain it.

Dan Pashman: It almost sounds a little bit like falling in love.

benny blanco: Yeah, that's what it is. Like, you know when you're, like, about to get hit by a car and you get that feeling through your chest or you're about to kiss someone for the first time?

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: I get that feeling when I'm literally serving a friend a sandwich. And I look at their face and they're just blown away and it like — I don't know, it's like bliss for me. I love it.

Dan Pashman: That sounds like that was sort of a big moment.

benny blanco: Oh, that was like a revelation. I was like, wow. We started, like, cooking all the time and we got really into it as kids. And you know, we were — a lot of us were — you know, had single mothers so we were like home alone. We would all, like, go over, and — weed was very much a part of all of the cooking. I don't know if — I don't know how much cooking would have happened if the weed didn't exist. 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: But yeah, we all got so into it, and it started, like, my love for food.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: At the same time that benny was getting stoned and messing with a George Foreman Grill, he was also trying to get into music professionally. And he had some unorthodox methods of doing that.

benny blanco: Oh my god, I used to cold call record labels. So I would like, look up a record label and I'd be like, okay, like, who's signed here? Okay, Jay Z's signed here." I'd be like, who's his lawyer? Okay, his lawyer is Michael Guido. And then I would like, call up the president of like, the whatever record label he was signed to and I was like, "Hey, this is Michael Guido, we need to speak immediately about a matter regarding Jay Z." And they'd be like, "oh, right, right away."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: And they'd like, punch me through and then I'd get on with like, Craig Kalman or whatever and I'd be like ... 

Dan Pashman: Like the president of the record label?

benny blanco: Yeah, I'd be like ... I'd be like, "Whatever you do, don't hang up! This is just me. Like, I just want to play my music!"

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHING]

benny blanco: And, you know, I got very close with, you know, a bunch of the assistants, cause I would call all the time and I used to do meetings with the assistants and like, there was a guy who worked at Atlantic Records who — he was one of three assistants for the president of the company, and you know, I would, like, come into town all the time. I would, like, drive up just to meet with him, like, right after — I would, like, skip school to go there and you know that guy's my manager to this day.

Dan Pashman: Wow.

benny blanco: You know? We're talking 20 plus years later.

Dan Pashman: So you were like driving up to New York City for the weekend, trying to get meetings, trying to get into the music industry.

benny blanco: Yeah.

Dan Pashman: What are you eating? What's the food in these moments? 

benny blanco: I used to sleep in the McDonald's at Times Square, because it was 24 hours, so we would just sleep. We would just order one thing from McDonald's — and we had no money. So we would order like one meal for, like, four of my friends and we would just sleep there all day until they kicked us out. The food was not … it was not a thing. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Like the food ... The food ... That was ... Those were not like the proudest moments of my food culinary journey.

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: I was like ... I don't even know what I was eating.

Dan Pashman: But then, so as you start to get more established in music, do you remember the first time that you started to kind of step from this kid, just trying to annoy people, to actually getting real responsibilities?

benny blanco: Uh, I was working as, like, an intern, okay, for this guy named Disco D. And I was in, like, sessions and I would be the food guy. And I'd be like — go get the food. 

Dan Pashman: Like, send the intern out, and they would send you out

benny blanco: I was the runner. 

Dan Pashman: Right. 

benny blanco: Yeah. I was the runner. And one time, this guy, he's an artist, his name's Spank Rock, and it was like him and Mos Def and Santigold — all these people were, like, in the studio. And I was just the guy who, like, came in to order. And this guy, Naeem, his name is, of Spank Rock, he — he was like, "Hey, what do you think about this line?", before I could take his order, and I was like ... 

Dan Pashman: Like, a lyric?

benny blanco: Yeah, I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's cool." And then, you know, the next day we were in the studio, and I came in to get his order again, and he was like, "Hey, you know, what rhymes with so and so?," And I was like, "Oh...", told him. And then ... And then, eventually, I was like writing rhymes with him. And then, eight months later, or a year later, we wound up like making music and that was, like, the kind of the beginning of my — I mean, I had, like, all these moments that happened before, but this was like the real deal beginning, you know?

Dan Pashman: By 2007, benny had his first writing and producing credits with Spank Rock. From there, he quickly catapulted himself to a whole new level, soon working with Britney Spears and Katy Perry. Part of that quick rise came because he never lost the hustle that allowed him to impersonate lawyers and sleep in McDonald’s just to get his foot in the door. But it wasn’t just the hard work that made him popular in the industry. It was his talent as a producer, and something else about benny. In a New York Times profile from 2018, he credits “‘75 percent’ of his success” to “being a good hang.” 

Dan Pashman: What do you see as your job as the producer when an artist comes into the studio to work with you?

benny blanco: I mean, essentially, I'm ... I'm a therapist. My job is the person comes in, I say, "Oh, how you doing?" They're like, "Oh, I'm good." I said, "No, how you doing?" They're like, "No, I'm great." And then I'm like, "How you doing?", and they're like, "Ahhh! My — everyone hates me. My wife's gonna leave ...", you know, it's like — and basically, I have a very short time, to really form, like, an amazing connection with someone, make it so they can trust me, and then make something good with them. 

Dan Pashman: This ability to get people to open up is crucial. Benny’s whole job is to help artists write songs that get at something meaningful and emotional, and then deliver powerful performances in the studio. To do that, the artists need to feel very comfortable with him. And benny says food often plays a major role in that process.

benny blanco: Food is like the natural lubricant to anything. It's, like, you want to have sex? Have a good meal. You want to, like, close a deal? Have a good meal. You want to, like, get someone to open up their deepest, darkest secrets? Have a meal. You know? So everything kind of revolves around food with me. It always has.

Dan Pashman: And so what are some examples of times that you've used food to get artists comfortable in the studio?

benny blanco: I remember like the first time I was working with SZA in the recording studio. We were at my house and she, like, went down to get a drink and she saw something in the fridge and she was like, "What's that?", and I was like, "Oh, it's like banana pudding." And she was like, "Oh, can I have some?", and she like had one bite. It was like in a big, like, sheet tray. And then like by the end of the day, there was no more banana pudding left.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: She would just, like, sneak down for bites. And then every time she came to the studio, she needed, like, a banana pudding, she needed — then it was like, "Oh, wait, what else do you making?", I was like, "Lasagna!" 

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Then I was like — there was a time when SZA said, "I'm not coming over unless you have spicy rigatoni cooked for me," and she was like, halfway joking, but halfway serious. And — cause I'll bark demands at her. I'll be like ... I'll be like, "We need to get this vocal done!", and she's like, "We need to eat the spicy rigatoni," and there's always like a bartering system between us And then we wound up, like, cooking more than making music, you know? I don't want to even make music. All I want to do is like eat food and then somehow I make a song. Honestly, making a song is like — it's really, like, I like blackout and then I like wake up with crumbs on me, and I'm like, "Oh! oh!", and then I'm like, "Woah, we got a song. it's finished."

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

MUSIC

Dan Pashman: Coming up, benny takes his love of food to a new level, when he begins hosting his now-famous dinner parties. Then later he reveals his burning hot takes on what foods he likes to eat freezing cold. Stick around.

MUSIC

 

+++ BREAK +++

 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: Welcome back to The Sporkful, I’m Dan Pashman. As I mentioned at the top of the show, I have several more very exciting Anything’s Pastable events to tell you about. First off, I’m teaming up with the whiz kid chefs at Cafe Mars in Brooklyn for a dinner event. Cafe Mars is a very unusual Italian restaurant, like me, they are not afraid of tweaking traditions, and they have planned a whole incredible menu inspired by Anything’s Pastable. It’s next Thursday May 9th, one night only, the book will be for sale and I’ll be there to hang out and sign copies, so I hope you'll join me. Then on May 16th I’m doing a virtual cooking class with Milk Street, so wherever you are, come hang out and cook! As we get ready for summer, I’ll be featuring two super flavorful, super easy dishes from the chapter of Anything’s Pastable entitled, “Pasta Salads Redeemed: Fresh and Bright, Hold The Mayo.” It’s gonna be a ton of fun! Get info on both events, including coupon codes for the Milk Street class, at sporkful.com/events.

Dan Pashman: Finally, there are just four spots left in my pasta pilgrimage trip to Italy. You can go to many of the same places I went to on my cookbook research trip, and hang out with many of the same people. Eat in Rome with Katie Perla, take a cooking class in Lecce with Silvestro Silvestori, and eat spaghetti all’assassina in Bari with me! Come one, let's hang out in Italy and eat pasta together! It's gonna be great. Sign up at CulinaryBackstreets.com/sporkful. 

Dan Pashman: Okay, back to music producer, artist, and cookbook author benny blanco. A few years ago, benny started getting more serious about his love of food and parties. He was long past his George Foreman grill phase. That's when he and his friend, cookbook author, Jess Damuck, started throwing dinner parties at benny’s house in L.A., hosting a variety of celebrities and creatives. These gatherings became such a thing that The New York Times wrote a feature about them, which said that Jess is quote "poised and deliberate", while benny is "frenetic verging on feral." [LAUGHS] The article says benny channels that energy into party planning.

benny blanco: I'm just like, well, who do we want to invite? Are we gonna drink wine? What type of wine are we gonna drink? Are we gonna, like, smoke weed? Will weed make some people anxious? Will, do we care? How do you, like, kick your friends out? It's like, midnight, I wanna go to bed. Like, what are the ways I can kick them out but make them still love me the next day?

Dan Pashman: How in the weeds are you with Jess planning the menu?

benny blanco: Oh my god. I mean, whether it's Jess or doing it myself [Dan Pashman: Right.] or doing it with other friends, you know, we're sitting there and everyone gets mad at me because I like to be ultra prepared. I like to be so prepared. I want to have everything ready. I want to know exactly what dinner thing I'm going to make. I want to know — I want to prep it days before.

Dan Pashman: But benny also knows that you can’t plan everything. The best parties often have something unexpected, like what he describes when I ask him what his parties look like.

benny blanco: You walk in. Things are happening. Where like, people are crowded around. I have this big island. Everyone's crowded around. People are sitting on top. You know, you gotta be able to cook with people in the way. I got people sitting on the ground. There's people sitting on top. People are smoking. We're drinking. We're passing, you know, champagne back and forth. There's music playing. There's probably, like, a French woman walking by with two babies on both of her breasts. And then someone's feeding the babies like some pecorino [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] they just brought back from Florence. And then like, there's always some man who's currently like just found himself or is about to find himself, and he did like 18 tabs of acid. And then my mom's walking around wearing, like, an insane shirt that says like "Bada bing, baby" you know [DAN PASHMAN LAUGHS] and like sparkles or something. You know, you're sitting there and maybe one of your favorite musicians is just like jamming on, like, a piano in the other room. And you're like, "What is that?" And you know, everyone is helping out. We're pulling things out where there's always little things, appetizers to eat while we're waiting. I got all sorts of little things out. My dogs are running around. There's like children. It's like a zoo. It's like Noah's Ark. There's two of everything. 

Dan Pashman:  [LAUGHING] 

benny blanco: And It just feels like when you step through the door, you're like, wow, I'm home. You know, that's what I want to create. I want to create, whether it's your first time there or you've been coming for, you know, to 40 dinners, I want you to say, I feel like everyone in here is safe. I feel like I'm gonna have a fucking rad night. 

Dan Pashman: Right. And it's interesting, Benny, because I think that like in some ways your vibe is very much like, hey, we're going to have a party. We're going to have a great time. We're going to wake up with crumbs on us and not even realize we made a record. We're going to smoke weed. It's going to be great. But also, you're also someone who's going to obsess over every detail and plan it to a T.

benny blanco: Because you don't want to say like, "Oh my god, I stayed up all night prepping all this, getting all this right." They want to come and be like think that it just kind of fell together and it's just like magic and they're there and they're like, "Wow, this is beautiful," but really you put a lot of time and effort into it, and you're thinking about like — you're like, okay, well, this friend doesn't eat cheese, and like this friend is vegan and, like, this friend doesn't like the smell of smoke, like, while they're eating, so I'll put them over here. You know what I mean?

Dan Pashman: You're reminding me, when I waited tables a million years ago, we had a manager who said, "The restaurant should function like a duck on a pond," like, the duck is floating across the surface of the water, it looks so serene, it looks so relaxed, but underneath the surface of the water, it's paddling furiously.

benny blanco: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Dan Pashman: Is that sort of your approach to life beyond cooking? Kind of like, you like everything to look like it's chill and effortless, but in reality, that takes a lot of effort?

benny blanco: I mean, I don't want it to be that. I think it kind of is by virtue, you know, if you're doing a lot of things, but, uh, I want to be paddling less.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] But see, like, sometimes I feel that way about my own life and work too, but then I was sort of like, but do I? like ... 

benny blanco: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Like, you and I are people who like clean countertops and clean floors and folded laundry, Benny, you know, like .. 

benny blanco: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, then you start paddling less, and then you're like, fuck, I want to get over there. 

Dan Pashman: Right. That's right. So I feel like it's in — it may just be in our nature to always be paddling.

benny blanco: Yeah, that's true. Shit.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Well, can I at least get a fucking floaty or something?

Dan Pashman: Right. [LAUGHS] 

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: But for now at least, benny’s not showing signs of slowing down, especially with the new cookbook. He wrote OPEN WIDE: A Cookbook for Friends with Jess Damuck. It’s both a cookbook and a party manual, inspired by their get-togethers.

benny blanco: We were having these amazing dinner parties and I just realized I was like, okay, well, if I can create this at my house, how can I put a handbook together, so people can do this at their own house and have, like, the exact same feeling and time that I'm having. I wanted to do something that could get everyone cooking. It's not only cooking, I want people to be able to just bring a big group of people together and have a fucking awesome time. Like, who wants to go to, like, a nightclub when you can like have like a ten-person dinner party at your house and laugh your fucking tits off? 

Dan Pashman: The book includes advice from benny and his friends about making a great party — from the stoner actor Ben Sinclair’s tips on incorporating weed into the festivities, to benny’s treatise on how to kick people out at the end of a long night. Then each chapter of the book focuses on a different theme for a dinner party. So there's a Pool Party chapter, with recipes for broiled oysters and key lime pie. The chapter called, Artsy Fartsy, lays out recipes for a watermelon shiso slushie, tempura mushrooms, and miso caramel thumbprint cookies. One of the chapters that got me really excited is the Saucy Shawarma Soiree — with that one, he teamed up with the chefs Michael Solomonov and Adeena Sussman. 

benny blanco: To me, a shawarma is — it's one of my true treats, one of my favorite things.

Dan Pashman: Yes.

benny blanco: You know, cause you're getting like all the fattiness of the meat. It's like dripping down your face, but then you're getting like, crazy acidic onions and slaws and salads and you're getting hot sauce and you're shoving french fries in it and it's — and then it's in, like, a warm fucking pita, laffa — are you out of your mind? 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS]

Dan Pashman: The chapter also has a recipe for Mike Solomonov’s famous hummus, which he serves at his restaurants and sells in Whole Foods.

benny blanco: It's literally the creamiest — like, if you let it, like, sit out, like, get towards room temperature, it is the fluffiest, creamiest hummus. His hummus is next level.

Dan Pashman: I love that. And I appreciate, benny, that you're highlighting the temperature of different foods. 

benny blanco: Yeah. 

Dan Pashman: Not just, like, cooking temperature, but, like, letting things come to room temperature, I think is something that a lot of people don't appreciate. Like, any kind of hummus, straight out of the fridge, is not great.

benny blanco: No, disgusting.

Dan Pashman: It’s always gonna be better if you let it come to room temperature. Every cheese should be out of the fridge [benny blanco: Yeah.] for at least an hour, ideally two hours before you serve it.

benny blanco: Yeah. Here's a crazy one. I love pizza, like piping hot. So it's like cutting, like my mouth is on — is completely burned. My lips are burned, but I also love it cold. I also love it room temperature. Indian food — I love — I like even better the next day.

Dan Pashman: Yeah. 

benny blanco: Like Indian food, I want like out of the fridge, coagulated, like — I don't know, there's just like — you know, I love Chinese food freezing the next day. 

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: And certain things like — there's certain things where it matters, like sometimes, like, if I'm having, like, chips with creme fraiche and caviar, I would want the creme fraiche not too cold. But if I'm having, like, a soft shell taco and with, like, beef and I want some sour cream in it, I want that sour cream pretty cold because I want to, like, taste it. You know, and sometimes you want the cheese melted? Sometimes you want it just shredded on top and not melted. 

Dan Pashman: I appreciate that you put this much thought into this, Benny.

benny blanco: Thanks.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] You have a picnic section in the cookbook. What are some of your strategies for a successful picnic?

benny blanco: Picnic? You don't want your shit to get soggy. Don't let shit get smushed or soggy, that's it. There's nothing worse than like, a sandwich, and the bottom bun, or bottom piece of bread, is just like — as if like, someone like, pissed on it. Like right — like right then. It's like soggy soapy — you're like, "What, what am I doing here?"

Dan Pashman: I mean, I think that people don't put enough thought into the layering of — in a sandwich, and the role that gravity [benny blanco: Ugh.] is bound to play in bringing in [benny blanco: Oh my god.] any kind of moisture towards the bottom bun.

benny blanco: Oh, layering is so important. It's insane.

Dan Pashman: [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: I do, like, a crinkle fold of the meat. It depends on what type of sandwich you're making though. There's so many — not every sandwich is created equally, and some sandwiches are supposed to be messy. Some are supposed to — things are supposed to fall out. Some aren't? You know, some sandwiches are really delicate, you know?

Dan Pashman: Yeah. I mean, I don't mind messy, but if it falls apart to me, that's ... 

benny blanco: No, no, it can't …

Dan Pashman: That's an engineering issue.

benny blanco: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, some, like, if you're having a sloppy joe, it's gotta fall apart a little.

Dan Pashman: Well, right. I mean the word’s in the title. You know, it's gonna ... [LAUGHS] 

benny blanco: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. like, but I will tell you, if I'm having a burger, I don't ever want it to fall apart. Like a burger needs to be so intact. Like, if a burger falls apart, you have failed me.

Dan Pashman: Now despite all his passion for eating, and many opinions about food, benny will be the first to tell you he's not a chef. That's why he worked with Jess on the cookbook, and why he throws parties with her. And he's come to realize that not being a chef is sometimes an asset in the kitchen.

benny blanco: A lot of times, like these trained chefs, they're like Michelin level chefs, the food tastes like shit, because they're not cooking with love. They're not cooking — they're not thinking about what each person wants and, you know — I don't know, I just feel like, when you're in there, you're making it, you're there with your hands, whether you, learned how to like, julienne this or do this, if you just go in and you do it, and you're trying to have like, the best time you possibly can, you're gonna come out with something that's pretty good. And even if it sucks, all your friends are gonna lie to you and say it tastes good.

Dan Pashman: Right.

benny blanco: And then if it's actually good, they're like, "Holy! Yo, this is better than any restaurant!"

Dan Pashman: Right. Well, and I think you're hitting on sort of like, there's a difference between things that are sort of — that taste good in a sort of intellectual way versus things that taste good in like a visceral way.

benny blanco: Yeah, like, yo, this is fucking delicious.

Dan Pashman: Right, and I so much more gravitate towards just, like, [benny blanco: Yeah.] something that's viscerally, like, delicious. 

benny blanco: Yeah, I don't want something that like, looks like an acorn, but it's actually, like, cantaloupe or something like that. That's not what I don't want, like, molecular gastronomy. I want to like sit down and be like, whoa, that's a taco. That looks like a taco and it's delicious.

Dan Pashman: As we were chatting, what benny said got me thinking about a quote from the book Mo’ Meta Blues by Questlove. In it, he says that the music critic, Stanley Crouch, eventually turned his back on avant-garde jazz, because people want to dance to music with a beat that’s familiar, something they can follow. I paraphrased Crouch’s quote for benny …   

Dan Pashman: At the end of the day, like you want everyone out of their, out of their seats and off their asses and jump it up and down. Like you got to play in four, four time.

benny blanco: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Dan Pashman: And I think about that a lot in the idea of food. It's sort of like the difference between, like, a Michelin star chef trying to do something no one's ever done versus someone just doing a really good version of something that everyone knows and loves.

benny blanco: Uh, yeah. It's like, just make a pizza. You know, it all goes back to like that 13-year-old-me making something over the George Foreman. 

MUSIC

benny blanco: You know, it's that it's ... I just think it shows people that you really care. and it's like a way to like really connect with someone, is food.

MUSIC 

Dan Pashman: That’s benny blanco. His new cookbook is called Open Wide: A Cookbook for Friends. And hey, if you want to win a copy of that book, all you have to do is sign up for The Sporkful newsletter by May 24th, and you’ll be entered to win. If you’re already on our mailing list, you’re already entered in to this and all of our giveaways. Open to U.S. and Canada addresses only. Sign up now at sporkful.com/newsletter.

Dan Pashman: Next week on the show, I go see a box of artist Georgia O’Keeffe’s handwritten recipes, which went up for auction. And I ask the question: Can a box of recipes bring Georgia O’Keeffe back to life? While you’re waiting for that one, check out last week’s episode with New York Times food writer Priya Krishna about her new cookbook, for kids. Hear about why she thinks kids are the best recipe testers she’s ever worked with. That one’s up now.